Fenman Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 ... The Kernow and Bachmann models are being produced alongside or to follow locomotives already produced or commissioned and I think that is a critical factor. I don't think it would be viable for any manufacturer to make coaches to "go with" a locomotive made by someone else. ... I think you make a good point, but I've been idly wondering if Hornby might be thinking there is now a critical mass of GNR-era locos available (many from its own stable) to justify having a go at 6-wheel GNR stock. I'd prefer them to have a go at Great Eastern stock first, to support GER-era D16 and my fantasy re-tooled B12 (surely that must be coming very soon...?), but GNR might be more commercial. The reason for suggesting Hornby is that they've got a strong track record of producing grouping-era carriages, many of which will be running behind their rivals' locos; the more locos their rivals produce, the more carriages Hornby sells. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi. Has there been any indication about the sound decoder installed in this loco (and for that matter the APT-e)? Could find any reference on website. I thought I saw lok sound mentioned although that might have been on APT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 A drive shaft can run from tender to locomotive *under* the footplate and not offend at all. It's been done, have a look through this topic http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4227and see. Granted the main subject is a goods engine, not a single, but the method is adaptable..... I think this is Dave Bradwell's preferred method. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Although I model the blue diesel era, I have to say I'm tempted by the Stirling Single. It would look great hauling my Bachmann Inspection saloon round my layout. The only question is, do I paint my inspection saloon green to match the loco, or paint the Single BR blue with full yellow ends to match my inspection saloon? Virgin colours vinyls would be more appropriate nowadays.....God forbid! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Can't make up my mind on this one. With all due respect to Rapido, this seems like a bit 'in at the deep end' for your first steam loco. Also they're not a company that I'm familiar with product wise. I think if it was Bachmann or Hornby I'd be more inclined to purchase. As it is, I'll probably wait until I see a working, liveried model before I decide. If I miss out then so be it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted April 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 14, 2015 Although I model the blue diesel era, I have to say I'm tempted by the Stirling Single. It would look great hauling my Bachmann Inspection saloon round my layout. The only question is, do I paint my inspection saloon green to match the loco, or paint the Single BR blue with full yellow ends to match my inspection saloon? Well, there is a teak inspection saloon running around on one of the heritage railways. It's even the right railway to go with the Stirling single. I had a wonderful trip and a cream tea on it on Easter Sunday. Perhaps someone would like to scan it and make some models of it. I'd certainly buy one. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Can't make up my mind on this one. With all due respect to Rapido, this seems like a bit 'in at the deep end' for your first steam loco. Also they're not a company that I'm familiar with product wise. I think if it was Bachmann or Hornby I'd be more inclined to purchase. As it is, I'll probably wait until I see a working, liveried model before I decide. If I miss out then so be it. Rapido has form. http://www.rapidotrains.com/Most of the products to be found on the site are developed for the Canadian market, an area that had been neglected before as being "too small". The detail on Rapido products puts Bachmann and Hornby in the shade as far as passenger coaches are concerned, their diesels are smooth and silent (unless they have sound). Jason and his team do not do things by halves. Usual disclaimer applies. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted April 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Agree, I have 3 of their locos, and a set of cars. The cars are very long, very detailed and still run nicely, have working lights, including in the observation dome. The locos are extremely detailed and run very smoothly. Happy customer only, though I am in Toronto and have visited the premises. Tom Edited April 14, 2015 by Dominion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 There was no mention of tender drives in the conversation I had with Bill at Locomotion last week. He has a clear idea of how the mechanism will be laid out and which wheelset will be driven (subject to, no doubt, testing an EP in due course). He is a modeller with his own British outline layout (GWR branch line) and plenty of experience (as a customer) of UK steam outline models. CHRIS LEIGH 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Whilst I agree with you that Rapido have a outstanding reputation for their products, GNR Dave is right to say that this is their first steam loco. And I think it's fair to say that putting a motor inside a box shaped diesel is very different to the challenges presented with a steam loco. (I'm not of course saying that Rapido churn out box-shaped locos, it's pretty obvious they have an awesome amount of detail to them!) I think we're probably in safe hands here. I doubt that they would have got to the stage of announcing the product if they didn't have the first clue about how to do it?! Scanning the locomotive is not the start of the design process, it's just one of many references to work with. I imagine that the basic ideas about how it is going to work and fit together have been thought through before they went ahead with the scan. They have a reputation to uphold after all, so I'm sure they wouldn't be undertaking this project unless they thought they could achieve it to their usual standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 It's not so much that it's their first steam loco. More that it's a Stirling Single, with all the problems that particular shape / wheel arrangement has for the OO gauge manufacturer. Problems that have been discussed in this very thread. Having said all that, I hope they do pull it off because I would love to have a model of such an iconic loco in the display cabinet above the layout. (It's a bit early for the period that I model, although I'll give it a sneaky test run when no rivet counters / era Nazis are looking ! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Whilst I agree with you that Rapido have a outstanding reputation for their products, GNR Dave is right to say that this is their first steam loco. And I think it's fair to say that putting a motor inside a box shaped diesel is very different to the challenges presented with a steam loco. Certainly. Having said that I think that it's fair to say that putting a motor inside your everyday, four or six coupled, steam locomotive is very different to the challenges presented by the Stirling Single. Arguably, doing this model without all the "we usually do it this way" baggage/thinking might result in a more effective solution. On the good news front, there's no visible and complicated valve gear. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Certainly. Having said that I think that it's fair to say that putting a motor inside your everyday, four or six coupled, steam locomotive is very different to the challenges presented by the Stirling Single. Arguably, doing this model without all the "we usually do it this way" baggage/thinking might result in a more effective solution. On the good news front, there's no visible and complicated valve gear. Yes, I think that's what GNR Dave meant when he said "in at the deep end"! I've always been very against the type of thinking that says: this is how it's always be done before, or that there is a right way of doing things. It's completely backwards to me to always blindly follow what comes before you. If everyone did it then nothing would ever be invented, or improved upon! Discarding everything and starting from scratch is a scary, but also very liberating experience, and by doing it you might come up with a completely different or new way of doing things. Of course, if you end up coming up with the same solution that's traditionally seen as "right" then that must be the best way! To the people that seem to be saying "there's no way I'm buying this, because it's impossible to do!", I'd say why not wait a bit and see! I think I've mentioned before that pre-orders aren't exactly about to close any time soon, and there'll be plenty of time to see the details. Pre-orders for the APT-E are still open, and you are able to see what is almost complete model to make your decision whether to buy it or not. Of course, it's fun to speculate and think of solutions, but I do think railway modellers have a tendency to lean towards pessimism sometimes! From now on I'm making it my mission to try and inject some more optimism on to RMWeb! Edited April 14, 2015 by iamjamie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 From now on I'm making it my mission to try and inject some more optimism on to RMWeb! Good luck with that! Seriously; good luck to you and anyone who can avoid jumping in with both feet to nit-pick, decry and belly-ache at the earliest opportunity. Here's a little song I wrote You might want to sing it note for note 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 To the people that seem to be saying "there's no way I'm buying this, because it's impossible to do!", I'd say why not wait a bit and see! I think I've mentioned before that pre-orders aren't exactly about to close any time soon, and there'll be plenty of time to see the details. Pre-orders for the APT-E are still open, and you are able to see what is almost complete model to make your decision whether to buy it or not. I'm not sure anyone is saying it won't work, more like it might not have much traction so might not pull much. It's obviously possible to make one work, there's a video on here of one working on the Grantham layout, but it's not pulling a lot. A lot may depend upon what compromises have to be made, those front bogie splashers ?, what radius curves will it go round ?. Regarding the APT-E, last week at Shildon I saw the real one, and the Rapido model on the model railway layout. Frankly it was boring. Ok if you like a blue and grey flying banana ! Rapido may have a reputation for good detail, but this dosn't have any detail to be modelled, so dosn't do them justice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Good luck with that! Seriously; good luck to you and anyone who can avoid jumping in with both feet to nit-pick, decry and belly-ache at the earliest opportunity. Here's a little song I wrote You might want to sing it note for note Good luck with that! Seriously; good luck to you and anyone who can avoid jumping in with both feet to nit-pick, decry and belly-ache at the earliest opportunity. Here's a little song I wrote You might want to sing it note for note Thats why its a Forum not a " yes thank you club". Surely everybody's points are valid whether liked by all or not ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted April 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) My first scratchbuilt engine was a single driver, so no reason why Rapido shouldn't do it as a first-off steam engine. They are not difficult to do, as Mike Sharman has demonstrated many times. There is plenty of scope for well placed weight in this engine, so haulage should not be a problem. With modern motors there would be absolutely no need to put the motor in the tender in 4mm scale (different story in 2mm). If you want it to go round hairpin bends then maybe the front splashers would need to be removable, but as mentioned before, making it in OO would allow more tolerance for curves. Shall we just let Rapido get on with it? Tim Edited April 14, 2015 by CF MRC 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) ....Surely everybody's points are valid... Not always. ....whether liked by all or not ? See above. Edited April 14, 2015 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Ivan, yes i see your point but "they" I expect will think otherwise and can say so if they wish !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Can't make up my mind on this one. With all due respect to Rapido, this seems like a bit 'in at the deep end' for your first steam loco. Also they're not a company that I'm familiar with product wise. I think if it was Bachmann or Hornby I'd be more inclined to purchase. As it is, I'll probably wait until I see a working, liveried model before I decide. If I miss out then so be it. If you ever met Jason and he talked to you for more than five seconds, you would never doubt his drive, enthusiasm and innovation. This will be a paradigm shift in model steam locos. Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Can't make up my mind on this one. With all due respect to Rapido, this seems like a bit 'in at the deep end' for your first steam loco. Also they're not a company that I'm familiar with product wise. I think if it was Bachmann or Hornby I'd be more inclined to purchase. As it is, I'll probably wait until I see a working, liveried model before I decide. If I miss out then so be it. So you are leery of buying a model from a company that is very open, communicates regularly with its customers, and goes to extremes to get a model right, but you wouldn't think twice about buying if the model came from one of 2 companies who have minimal interaction with the customers and have a track record of releasing models with issues and remaining silent. Perhaps this explains why some companies continue to put out models with errors? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2015 Indeed,do some of us need to see the nail marks in Jason's flesh before we buy ? Are we treating Rapido in the same way as some members rounded sceptically on DJM several months ago ? Seems it's the usual British way of dealing with innovation and success.Do we still need to be convinced the world isn't flat ? Healthy discussion is one thing.Scepticism is quite another.The ball is firmly in Jason's court.Let him and Bill get on with it as they and Locomotion see fit. I see our part in the game as an enthusiastic audience,giving all the help we can. Did any of us ever believe we'd have a model of Number 1 in preparation for r-t-r ? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2015 Doing the first steam loco is no more of a challenge engineering wise than the tilt mech on the APT-E Apart from that I think they've chosen a good first steam loco, there's no visible valve gear! I agree the Splashers will be the defining feature and I suspect a sort of 0-6-2 arrangement will be the easiest way but we will wait and see what Bill and Jason have in mind I've just gone and bought a Hornby GNR N2 to go with my Atlantic so maybe I could compare the wheelbase on there to the Single as it goes round 2nd radius according to the box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 It's not scepticism, it's cynicism... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2015 I think we can be reasonably sure that much of the mechanical fit has already been given considerable thought to make sure the whole thing was feasible before spending a few bob (rather more in reality of course) on scanning No.1. After all don't forget that picture which appeared on the 'net at the time of the APT scanfest - Jason & Bill had clearly had a pretty good look at the single back then, and plenty of time to think about it since then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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