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Michael Edge

Herculaneum Dock

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Excellent, one of my all time favourite layouts. Would love to see it in person someday. Looking forward to watching it progress! 

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Really looking forward to how this progresses :)

 

Cheers, Paul

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Bout Time!  ...

 

but coming along nicely!

 

Baz

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Since the layout is about to undergo a considerable upheaval I'll start a thread on it now. Earlier history to follow but this is how Herculaneum Dock is being turned into a continuous run and the fiddle yard cassettes abandoned.

First of all 15" chopped off the end of the dock board and it fits in the new shed.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3504s.jpg

 

New fiddle yard boards (thanks to Ken Nelson) fitted down one side of the shed.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3503s.jpg

 

I've taken advantage of these nice new boards to do a small experiment related to future layout plans, this is intended to be a universal fiddle yard. The track temporarily laid here is the main line run from what will probably be my next layout.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3506s.jpg

The reason for the test is that this involves a 1 in 40 gradient with all trains banked up the hill. End boards propped up to reproduce this, difference in height is 90mm at the end.

For those not in the know that should have been enough to give away the location of the proposed layout.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3507s.jpg

 

 

 

Some tests with a train were done, no suitable motive power is available at the moment but all went well with 30 wagons + brake and up to three locos. All controlled together on DC at the moment, I might try experimenting with DCC but I'm not sure it would be better.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3505s.jpg

 

Final luxury (again thanks to Ken's carpentry skills) is a lifting section inside the door. This also shows the new position of the Dingle end of the LOR.

It fits in the shed cos someone suggested turning a leg round so the brace was on the inside.. but it will be more operable without the cassette planks...

 

Baz

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Trackplan for the alterations

 

post-1643-0-78403600-1429167578_thumb.jpg

 

At the right hand (Liverpool) end of the plan the three tracks under Caryl Street bridge combine into two for the fiddle yard. Most of the centre road has been lost unfortunately, this actually ran all the way into Central station but was only used for empty stock/light engine moves etc. The MDHB also now curves into the fiddle yard with a single track connection, this will be left dead since it is the boundary between the DC controlled BR and the DCC dock railway, as at other places only wagons will be pushed across. The LOR also curves round here to the relocated hidden turn back siding.

The other end was more difficult to design, sharp curves replace the cassettes from the dockside where the coal wagons run off stage. No worries about this, the S bend in the dock railway under the LOR bridge is 17" - 19" radius and runs OK. The sidings nearest the casemates are only used for tank wagons to and from Dingle, since no one can tell whether they are loaded or empty they will just be shuffled off stage on to short dead end tracks.

The complications arise in the fiddle yard, goods trains (apart from a few short van trains to Central) can't go round and round, they all terminate at Brunswick. The solution (suggested by Barry O) was to put a facing crossover in Dingle tunnel so that all Eastbound goods trains can get to the far side of the fiddle yard by running wrong road for a short distance. A turntable is now required in the fiddle yard as all locos have to be turned - little or no tender first working on this railway. Nothing elaborate here, just hand powered. One of the main advantages of these alterations is that very little stock will need to be lifted off the rails, mostly just goods brake vans.

The fiddle yard trackplan shows a few connections to nowhere and some sidings which seem to be of limited use, these are for the next layout it will be fitted to.

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Hurrah! A thread for one of my favourite layouts (well-remember being 'blown away' when I first saw Herculaneum at Warley - instantly recognisable).

 

Like the multi-use fiddle yard and intrigued to hear of plans for it's future use. And a turntable too - where have I seen that before?(!)

 

Look forward to further updates.

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What a lot of potential for operating, this is going to be a thread worth watching. I remember the dock area well from my days as a lorry driver and trips on the Overhead Railway as a small child.  Just one concern: are you going to insulate the shed before too much work of a permanent nature is done? The difference insulation made in my garage is staggering and worth the cost.

  Regards Mike

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The reason for the test is that this involves a 1 in 40 gradient with all trains banked up the hill. End boards propped up to reproduce this, difference in height is 90mm at the end.

For those not in the know that should have been enough to give away the location of the proposed layout.

 

Hmmm, a 1 in 40 gradient, early 60's AC electrics and no brake vans on unfitted trains, tricky one.

I'll go for the North West.

 

Mike.

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What a lot of potential for operating, this is going to be a thread worth watching. I remember the dock area well from my days as a lorry driver and trips on the Overhead Railway as a small child.  Just one concern: are you going to insulate the shed before too much work of a permanent nature is done? The difference insulation made in my garage is staggering and worth the cost.

  Regards Mike

 

In another life, I run a choir and possess a lot of music that has to be stored somewhere. At the bottom of the garden we have a shed that I insulated all over, then installed floor, ceiling and walls and the music has been living in there for the last two years without getting damp or mouldy, and that's without heating or dehumidifier. If I want to, I can heat the shed with a £10 fan heater that I got from Wickes; it takes just 5 to 10 minutes to turn the shed in to an oven!

 

Phil

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Hmmm, a 1 in 40 gradient, early 60's AC electrics and no brake vans on unfitted trains, tricky one.

I'll go for the North West.

 

Mike.

 

Mike said that it was not the right motive power. And the fiddleyard name is there anyway.

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What a lot of potential for operating, this is going to be a thread worth watching. I remember the dock area well from my days as a lorry driver and trips on the Overhead Railway as a small child.  Just one concern: are you going to insulate the shed before too much work of a permanent nature is done? The difference insulation made in my garage is staggering and worth the cost.

  Regards Mike

Mike

it is great to operate the layout but it will be even better with the new fiddle yards. You can easily tie yourself up in knots in the goods yard, the MDHB and even the LOR...

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Hmmm, a 1 in 40 gradient, early 60's AC electrics and no brake vans on unfitted trains, tricky one.

I'll go for the North West.

 

Mike.

Don't be fooled by the loco, I said I had nothing appropriate. You should know better anyway!

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What a lot of potential for operating, this is going to be a thread worth watching. I remember the dock area well from my days as a lorry driver and trips on the Overhead Railway as a small child.  Just one concern: are you going to insulate the shed before too much work of a permanent nature is done? The difference insulation made in my garage is staggering and worth the cost.

  Regards Mike

Nothing permanent in there, these are exhibition layouts, all fully portable.

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That lift up flap is brilliant! Should make life a lot easier.

 

Baz

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Mike said that it was not the right motive power. And the fiddleyard name is there anyway.

 

Todays IDWORMW award.

 

Mike.

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That lift up flap is brilliant! Should make life a lot easier.

 

Baz

 

Especially for those who have difficulty bending the joints and getting down and dirty. Yes, we've seen the pictures of you, Barry, on the Grantham thread, wiring the layout while sitting on a stool! Why not join the ranks of the real men and wire the layout while lying on your back? :jester:

 

Phil

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A little more work done this week.

 

post-1643-0-06989900-1429684953_thumb.jpg

 

The space where the cassettes went has now been filled in with plywood, Templot drawings for the new trackwork tried in place

 

post-1643-0-62037300-1429684983_thumb.jpg

 

The first snag appeared when the pointwork overlapped on to the lifting section but this turnout can be shortened to fit.

 

post-1643-0-93294700-1429685169_thumb.jpg

 

post-1643-0-78994000-1429685195_thumb.jpg

 

Another banking trial done, this time with loaded coal wagons and up to four locos, no problems with this at all. I've made another temporary use of these baseboards with a few yards of EM track to test rakes of coaches for Carlisle. I'll have to take all this up now and drop the boards back to level for Herculaneum tracklaying.

 

post-1643-0-62630700-1429685421_thumb.jpg

 

Some cassettes still in place at this end but not for long, I need to keep a few for Cwmafon though.

 

post-1643-0-76608900-1429685457_thumb.jpg

 

Finally two photos of Herculaneum in its final position up against the side of the shed. The windows will have to be modified though, the wire security frame gets in the way of the LOR and I'll need a couple of opening windows to reach in from outside for maintenance and assembling the Overhead. The two large boards from Cwmafon are still in the way but I can't think of anywhere else to store them at the moment.

 

 

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Interesting developments, I really enjoyed seeing this at Warley a few years back and my Mother was delighted to see the pics as she remembered bits of it from childhood. I assume you don't get much sun through those windows? We blanked off my Dad's shed windows when we insulated it and went for led lighting and ended up with a nice consistent temperature and even light too without the sun buckling the track anymore ;)

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The fiddle yard looks huge. A lot more trains to have available for the yard, dock railway and Liverpool Central!

So more coaches to be added to passenger trains?

 

Perhaps the Cwmafon boards can be crated and stored on their ends?

 

 

Banking looks good.

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Don't be fooled by the loco, I said I had nothing appropriate. You should know better anyway!

Sounds a bit like Worsborough incline on the Penistone to Wath line.

 

Peter

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Brilliant to see Herculaneum Dock here on RMweb, I remember spending a lot of time admiring this layout at the Leeds Model railway Society, a great inspiration for anyone, but especially for me a couple of years ago as I was starting out again in the hobby.

I can't believe it will actually fit in a shed.

Jamie

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Especially for those who have difficulty bending the joints and getting down and dirty. Yes, we've seen the pictures of you, Barry, on the Grantham thread, wiring the layout while sitting on a stool! Why not join the ranks of the real men and wire the layout while lying on your back? :jester:

 

Phil

Nothing wrong in getting yourself comfortable. I have been known before to-day to grip baseboard sections either vertically in a very large bench vice or horizontally with a couple of cramps onto a table.

I leave struggling to those who seem to enjoy it.

Any chance of seeing photos of Barry "working"?

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A little more work done this week.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3525s.jpg

 

The space where the cassettes went has now been filled in with plywood, Templot drawings for the new trackwork tried in place

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3526s.jpg

 

The first snag appeared when the pointwork overlapped on to the lifting section but this turnout can be shortened to fit.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3528s.jpg

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3527s.jpg

 

Another banking trial done, this time with loaded coal wagons and up to four locos, no problems with this at all. I've made another temporary use of these baseboards with a few yards of EM track to test rakes of coaches for Carlisle. I'll have to take all this up now and drop the boards back to level for Herculaneum tracklaying.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3531s.jpg

 

Some cassettes still in place at this end but not for long, I need to keep a few for Cwmafon though.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF3530s.jpg

 

Finally two photos of Herculaneum in its final position up against the side of the shed. The windows will have to be modified though, the wire security frame gets in the way of the LOR and I'll need a couple of opening windows to reach in from outside for maintenance and assembling the Overhead. The two large boards from Cwmafon are still in the way but I can't think of anywhere else to store them at the moment.

Mike you can always suspend the Cwmafon boards up in the apex of the shed roof using a system of ropes and pulleys.or some suspending brackets.

Ken.

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