Y Ddewin gwyn Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hi all, I was very taken by the coal hoist in Swansea North Dock in the second photo in the following link, http://www.swanseadocks.co.uk/Coal%20shipping%20.htm What I would like to know is how it worked! It looks like it has a wagon turntable and maybe a wagon hoist or something, but if people have any idea that would be great. I wouldn't mind putting one on a future layout that takes some coal down the Valleys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am more familiar with the hoists that used to be at Barry docks but the principle is the same. There was indeed a wagon turntable so that the coal could be tipped from the end door of the wagon. Some of the Felix Pole 20 ton wagons did have doors at both ends but the majority of the wagons used for shipment traffic had doors at one end only, denoted by the diagonal white stripe on the body in later years. Wagons were tipped one at a time. Each wagon in turn was attached to a hoist - hydraulically powered at Barry and doubtless elsewhere - and first raised, then tipped, allowing the coal to cascade down the chute into the ship's hold. It was possible to agitate the wagon to get all the coal out. The empty wagon would then run back by gravity to another track alongside that full of loaded wagons. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 They were amazing machines; I got to watch them from fairly close-to in the 1960s, when dad's firm did some work around the docks. If you look closely, you'll see that some of the hoists can move along the quayside, making it easy for the vessel to be 'trimmed' (loaded evenly); quite how the wagons were unloaded on these, I don't know. Dropping the coal inevitably caused damage, so other types of unloader were trialled, especially on those ports east of Swansea which dealt in more friable coal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I have a photo of something similar. Does not belong to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I wonder where that one was taken? Although it says 'Wm Cory, London', Cory was a South Wales- based firm, with the family living in Penarth at one time. They were big mine-owners and coal-factors, who later moved into other fuels (I believe the oil refinery at Coryton on the Thames was connected to them), as well as dealing in warehousing at both ports and inland. If anyone's interested in further views of coal-handling facilities in South Wales, the National Museum did an album of views of the various docks operated by the GWR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted April 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 15, 2015 You may find the book "Staith to conveyor. An illustrated history of coal shipping machinery" by Terry Powell (Chilton Ironworks, 2000, ISBN 0 9523672 5 4) useful. It covers the whole history of shipping coal with quite a lot on South Wales including photos and diagrams. I have a feeling that the museum in Swansea also has some displays but it is a very vague memory - can any else clarify or contradict? Jonathan David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MCMLXI Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 There are a good selection of photo's of ship loading equipment in; Modelling Aspects Of The Coal Industry by Rob Johnson regards joe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y Ddewin gwyn Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Wow! That is a great start, thank you for the responses everyone. My only experience of watching export coal being unloaded from wagons and put on ships has been watching rotary dumpers at Gladstone harbour in Queensland. These nifty little hoist are a bit beyond my experience. Setting up one of these on a model railway so it is automated would be a lot of fun; and potentially frustrating in the extreme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted April 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 15, 2015 I don't think I have ever seen one modelled, let alone in working order. Quite a challenge. Please let us see progress on here. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y Ddewin gwyn Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I will do that. As a layout is still a distant prospect I may amuse myself by making one soon. A drawing would be a good place to start. Watch this space! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I wonder where that one was taken? Although it says 'Wm Cory, London', Cory was a South Wales- based firm, with the family living in Penarth at one time. I believe this photo is from the NRM's collection and was published in their book - North London Railway. But try as might search, I can't find my copy of the book - this is the third book this week I can't find.... Thus Fat Controller, I think this view to be in London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sykes Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I believe this photo is from the NRM's collection and was published in their book - North London Railway. But try as might search, I can't find my copy of the book - this is the third book this week I can't find.... Thus Fat Controller, I think this view to be in London. Penlan's memory is correct - this picture is in the North London Railway book and shows a hoist at Poplar Dock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y Ddewin gwyn Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 There are some photos of less elaborate hoists at Penarth dock, but none so simple as the NLR example above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Maybe slightly off topic, but the book 'Great Western Docks and Marine' by Tony Atkins is a good overview on all the ex GW docks, either owned or served.Lots of pictures of hoists, cranes etc as well as details of workings etc. One interesting fact (I assume it's correct!) is that at one time Cardiff docks exported more coal than the combined Tyneside docks, so the phrase 'Coals to Newcastle' should really be 'Coals to Cardiff'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2015 Maybe slightly off topic, but the book 'Great Western Docks and Marine' by Tony Atkins is a good overview on all the ex GW docks, either owned or served.Lots of pictures of hoists, cranes etc as well as details of workings etc. One interesting fact (I assume it's correct!) is that at one time Cardiff docks exported more coal than the combined Tyneside docks, so the phrase 'Coals to Newcastle' should really be 'Coals to Cardiff'! Just an aside on that - when I was working in South Wales in 1973 we used to send a train of coal every week to the Newcastle area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Just an aside on that - when I was working in South Wales in 1973 we used to send a train of coal every week to the Newcastle area. Anthracite, 'smokeless' fuel or coking coal, Mike? Penlan's memory is correct - this picture is in the North London Railway book and shows a hoist at Poplar Dock. How very odd! Bunker fuel for ships docking in London, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2015 Anthracite, 'smokeless' fuel or coking coal, Mike? How very odd! Bunker fuel for ships docking in London, perhaps? Coking coal for blending Brian - all very sensible when you think about it of course but it always used to make me chuckle. I don't know about London but there were in the early days some very odd - compared to what we're used to - coal movements to docks. There was, going a long way back, a regular Aberdare/Pontypool Road train to Birkenhead for instance and it could just as readily have been shipment coal as bunker coal. It would be interesting to delve out some of the early patterns because they were obviously very different from what came later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Being a Birkenhead lad, I did look at modelling parts of that area. I can't recall exact numbers but the coal traffic into the area was huge. There were the docks, so bunkering would have been a key element of this, and domestic coal for a growing population, and for the factories and offices in which they worked, and of course, the gas works, for light and later, heat. I don't recall a power station there, but I expect that there were power stations locally in the early days. As an aside, the Docks at Birkenhead and Liverpool were big users of hydraulic power, the water towers are still there, (well, the Dock one was recently, haven't been f a few months and didn't got to the docks over Christmas!) and the lifts at Hamilton Square station were also hydraulic, and the tower for that is definitely part of the Birkenhead waterfront vista. best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted April 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 20, 2015 I haven't had a chance to look through my books but I am pretty sure there are some photos in one of the volumes on the Forest of Dean railways of wagon hoists at Lydney and the remains of one at somewhere like Bullo Pill. When I get a chance I'll try to give chapter and verse. These were much simpler than the ones at places like Barry, more like the Poplar ones. And out of the blue yesterday I came across a photo with a coal wagon in mid air being emptied through its end door into the bunker of a ship. In Turton volume 13 page 40, Canada Dock, Liverpool. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Just an aside on that - when I was working in South Wales in 1973 we used to send a train of coal every week to the Newcastle area. Can't remember the reporting number(s), but from 1971-1972. 11:20 ThO Bargoed Pits - Penshaw 13:00 TO Radyr Quarry - Penshaw EDIT:- it was 8E55 Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 There's a photo, 1950's, of the last surviving of the Lydney tipplers here; http://www.sungreen.co.uk/Lydney-Glos/images/LYDNEY-DOCKS-1950-s.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted April 27, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2015 The tippler at Bullo Pill I mentioned above (not Lydney, though I like the photo in the previous post) was a simple one. There are two photos in the Wild Swan Forest of Dean Branch Volume 1, one of it when it was in use and one derelict. Possibly if and when Volume 5 of the Severn and Wye epic appears it will cover Lydney docks and we shall see more photos. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y Ddewin gwyn Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 At length I have reached the drawing board stage .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y Ddewin gwyn Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 And the beginnings of a model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 7mm? going to be an impressive structure! best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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