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Dapol 00 Gauge LSWR B4


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1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Good timing. Little gems, these are. :good:

 

It was one of those models that's been sitting on my "nice to have if the price is right"  list for a while. I don't need one but I've accepted the fact I've become an outright Southern collector, my original Hove ish layout theme has gone out the window somewhat. Although I did see a photo of one at Brighton , presumably it went through Hove to get there...

 

Edit: link to photo 

A Southern Railway shot of Adams B4 0-6-0 'dock tank' no. 89 Trouville at the unlikely location of Brighton photographed on 3/5/47. Bradley explains that no. 89 had been rendered redundant at Southampton Docks with the advent of the USA tanks but was taken out of store and transferred to Brighton in April 1947 in order to perform shunting duties at Kingston Wharf, Shoreham. This lasted only intil a further reallocation, this time to Stewarts Lane, in Jnauary 1948. BR branding and the permanent removal of its name was applied in February 1950 and withdrawal as BR no. 30089 came at Guildford mpd in March 1963. The newly outshopped Bulleid light pacific at the left of this shot is no. 21C160. [Mike Morant collection]

 

 

 

Edited by GreenGiraffe22
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In my rebuild to 30102 I've come across this pipe, marked in the picture below. I have also found pictures of 30096 which also has the same pipe but doesn't appear on the Dapol model.

Anyone have ideas as to what it was for. 466229229_30102-Safetyvalvepipe.jpg.172a1e7966127bfa5e6e35f6e996103a.jpg  

Edited by Yankee
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Whilst researching the web for 30102 I came across a couple of interesting observations I hadn’t noticed before with reference to 30089 as modelled by Dapol.

Apart from the two pervious mentioned  discrepancies concerning the buffer shape and front centre lamp iron I’ve noticed that the safety valve on 30089 never appears in any photos found of it with a cover fitted. Also it also had that mystery pipe from the front of the cab to the base of

the safety valve.

f6d5549fc1671ed7985479b5e082ffee.jpg.2b5da3c390a3ec4e60a0278c4f632709.jpg

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9 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

2320D5B0-F486-4A51-8CA1-79FFA9590112.jpeg.48edb79c837020b4eb3228d7e505eed8.jpeg

 

D2E7846A-C8F2-4C8F-AA42-7C491DAD39B7.jpeg.63e2b6b5cbc313f4eb394c619b0ee1fe.jpeg

 

 

Thanks Paul. 

 

That LSWR example hits the spot very nicely indeed though I would have  expected it to have an early Adams stove pipe chimney. 

 

I presume ( ! ) these are just livery samples. 

 

Rob. 

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19 minutes ago, coeurdelyon said:

Hi Rob,

As this is one of the Drummond engine builds it has his chimney, also note the dome is further back with a higher pitched cab roof all taken from a photograph.

Glad you like the livery,

Richard

 

 

Morning Richard. 

 

Thank you. That clears that up ! Yes, very nice job on the livery. I completely missed the dome etc. 

 

Rob

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2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Thanks Paul. 

 

That LSWR example hits the spot very nicely indeed though I would have  expected it to have an early Adams stove pipe chimney. 

 

I presume ( ! ) these are just livery samples. 

 

Rob. 

 

1 hour ago, coeurdelyon said:

Hi Rob,

As this is one of the Drummond engine builds it has his chimney, also note the dome is further back with a higher pitched cab roof all taken from a photograph.

Glad you like the livery,

Richard

 

54 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Morning Richard. 

 

Thank you. That clears that up ! Yes, very nice job on the livery. I completely missed the dome etc. 

 

Rob

 

 

Well, having got the books out.......

 

No. 82 built at Nine Elms,June 1908. Great photo in Peter Cooper's "The B4 Dock Tanks". 

 

In addition, looks like it survived, at least until June 1926 in this livery as this book features an image from HC Casserley taken at Plymouth Friary. 

 

Tricky to tell but still looks to be lined out etc. 

 

Rob. 

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Well, I've now picked up a couple of the new batch of B4s and have a few thoughts. 

 

The L&SWR liveried 82 is just lovely. Would have liked to have seen the earlier L&SWR socket lamp irons rather than the later pattern but the livery execution is splendid. Runs nicely so a bit of gentle weathering seems in order. 

 

However, yesterday I collected a second example, this time Jersey in dark green. Something looked odd and on arrival back at Chateau Sheep, I got the books out. 

 

Yep. Dapol have numbered Jersey as 91 on each bufferbeam. It should be 81. Arguably there should be no numbers at all but if they're  there, they should be right. 

 

Bradley suggests that Jersey was not numbered on being sent to the docks so easy to remove but also notes that it was dark green, lined in black and white. Dapol have lined this in black and a lighter green. Mmmmm........Beautifully done but who is right ? My money's on Bradley at this point as Dapol seem to have gone with a standard L&SWR goods holly green livery.( need to check that last point ) 

 

Again the lamp irons are in the later style and configuration rather than the sockets so Jersey is not in an as delivered condition. 

 

If I can source suitable transfers, Jersey is set to be rebranded as Honfleur so I'll be removing the numbers anyway, rebranded or not. The lamp irons could be modified. 

 

I've also got my eye on Trouville but this seems right for the mid-1930s so no drama there but in this day and age, things could be better. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

The L&SWR liveried 82 is just lovely. Would have liked to have seen the earlier L&SWR socket lamp irons rather than the later pattern but the livery execution is splendid


Yeah I picked that up as it looked so good, I’m hoping they do that livery in O too. 

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On 03/01/2024 at 08:50, NHY 581 said:

Well, I've now picked up a couple of the new batch of B4s and have a few thoughts. 

 

The L&SWR liveried 82 is just lovely. Would have liked to have seen the earlier L&SWR socket lamp irons rather than the later pattern but the livery execution is splendid. Runs nicely so a bit of gentle weathering seems in order. 

 

However, yesterday I collected a second example, this time Jersey in dark green. Something looked odd and on arrival back at Chateau Sheep, I got the books out. 

 

Yep. Dapol have numbered Jersey as 91 on each bufferbeam. It should be 81. Arguably there should be no numbers at all but if they're  there, they should be right. 

 

Bradley suggests that Jersey was not numbered on being sent to the docks so easy to remove but also notes that it was dark green, lined in black and white. Dapol have lined this in black and a lighter green. Mmmmm........Beautifully done but who is right ? My money's on Bradley at this point as Dapol seem to have gone with a standard L&SWR goods holly green livery.( need to check that last point ) 

 

Again the lamp irons are in the later style and configuration rather than the sockets so Jersey is not in an as delivered condition. 

 

If I can source suitable transfers, Jersey is set to be rebranded as Honfleur so I'll be removing the numbers anyway, rebranded or not. The lamp irons could be modified. 

 

I've also got my eye on Trouville but this seems right for the mid-1930s so no drama there but in this day and age, things could be better. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

 

Hi Rob, 

 

Whilst Jersey and Guernsey were not initially numbered when delivered to the Docks, when they returned back into LSWR working stock shortly after they were allocated the numbers 81 ans 176 respectively and the numbers were subsequently painted on the bufferbeams. 

The photograph I have seen of  Guernsey taken as delivered (at the same time as Jersey) although black and white the tones would suggest light green rather then white lining. 

They did also get the lamp irons amended from sockets to fixed irons at some stage as well, so the Dapol is correct in these respect but not as first delivered. See this image of Guernsey in the 1936. 

 B4Guernsey1936.jpg.832a0ee330ee0c5c945462cc135d67ee.jpg

 

PS Whilst 82 in LSWR lighty green passenger livery looks great I am yet to see evidence that they carried this livery instead of goods livery  dark holly green. 

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4 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

Hi Rob, 

 

Whilst Jersey and Guernsey were not initially numbered when delivered to the Docks, when they returned back into LSWR working stock shortly after they were allocated the numbers 81 ans 176 respectively and the numbers were subsequently painted on the bufferbeams. 

The photograph I have seen of  Guernsey taken as delivered (at the same time as Jersey) although black and white the tones would suggest light green rather then white lining. 

They did also get the lamp irons amended from sockets to fixed irons at some stage as well, so the Dapol is correct in these respect but not as first delivered. See this image of Guernsey in the 1936. 

 B4Guernsey1936.jpg.832a0ee330ee0c5c945462cc135d67ee.jpg

 

PS Whilst 82 in LSWR lighty green passenger livery looks great I am yet to see evidence that they carried this livery instead of goods livery  dark holly green. 

 

 

 

Hi Graham. Thank you. 

 

In respect of Jersey/Guernsey Dapol have gone for the green lining so thanks for the clarity. I'll probably add the numbers. I'm working on the basis that these would have been applied using standard L&SWR numerals or was the type face (?) a local style ? 

 

The image of Guernsey is interesting as it shows the modified cab sheet to the drivers side and the linseed filtration malarkey behind the dome plus, as uou say, yhe amended lamp irons. A cracker. 

 

It's a pity if correct about 82's livery but frankly, I can live with that. It's a pretty thing and looks just right. I hesitate as there is a loverly H.C. Casserly image of 82 at Plymouth and I'm guessing that this is the basis for Dapol's production of the model as is. Obviously hard to tell due to b&w image but it looks lighter than Holly green. If the date of the image ( 1926 ) is correct, I would have thought that by then the Holly green would have weathered to almost black. 

 

 

Rob. 

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9 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

 

Hi Graham. Thank you. 

 

In respect of Jersey/Guernsey Dapol have gone for the green lining so thanks for the clarity. I'll probably add the numbers. I'm working on the basis that these would have been applied using standard L&SWR numerals or was the type face (?) a local style ? 

 

 

Yes standard LSWR serif bufferbeam style.

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4 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

Yes standard LSWR serif bufferbeam style.

 

 

Thanks Graham. 

 

Here's the image I referred to earlier. Taken from The B4 Dock Tanks by Peter Cooper. Kingfisher Railway Publications. 

 

 

20240119_193155-01.jpeg.0748c2fbc046c1b5efed0b650c1ec908.jpeg

( HC Casserley.) 

 

82 does look quite dark so probably Holly Green as per your earlier post. 

 

Rob. 

 

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Received no. 82 last week. Very lovely loco. After running in, very good running capabilities.

 

After having put in a decoder, I realised that the pickup connections to the PCB are connected to the wrong side - loco moved backwards when it shall run forward. Thus, I interchanged the two wires on the PCB.

 

When plugging in a decoder, please keep in mind the decoder must not be longer than 10 mm in total, including NEM 651 socket. I had a Doehler & Haas PD10, which lead to excellent running abilities as it has a small stay alive on board, but it was too long to re-mount the body. Now, I plugged in an ESU Lokpikot Nano which was in my stocks. Also fine, but the B4 likes a stay alive.. 

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4 minutes ago, Guardian said:

After having put in a decoder, I realised that the pickup connections to the PCB are connected to the wrong side - loco moved backwards when it shall run forward. Thus, I interchanged the two wires on the PCB.

The tech way to do this is to simply add 1 to CV29, which can be done on the main line. Diligent souls will tell you to read CV29 first, to see whether to add or subtract 1, but that can't be done on the main in most systems, is thus tedious, and I've never had a problem. 

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23 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

The tech way to do this is to simply add 1 to CV29, which can be done on the main line. Diligent souls will tell you to read CV29 first, to see whether to add or subtract 1, but that can't be done on the main in most systems, is thus tedious, and I've never had a problem. 

Hi Ian,

 

I am aware of Cv 29 bit 1 but prefer to have that corrected electrically. As otherwise, without Decoder, the model runs the other direction as its classmates...

 

Cheers,

Mark

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Yep. This seems to be the norm for this latest batch. My 82 is the same as yours. I'll check my Jersey as I'm pretty certain it's the same. 

 

Rob

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