Mortimore's Yard - '70s trip freight workings

[Fat Controller]

Hi Adrian,

 

that is a lot of work you have put in there!

 

One traffic flow that was still passing in 1978 when I first joined Bristol TOPS  was the Texaco tanks,

4 wheeled tanks from PBA Chittening  estate (I think) via the PBA Royal Edward Yard to Exeter City Basin (the sidings on the down side).

I seem to recall they went down as a block train in the afternoon, but returned discharged formed into one of the night services from St Blazey

which called at KIngsland Road to detach, they then went down to Avonmouth on one of the local trips later that morning,

 

edit

looking at your simplifier 7B11 02.50 Exeter Riverside - Avonmouth looks the likely service to return the discharged tanks, along with other general traffic.

cheers

Were they to PBA, or for the fuel depot at Shirehampton?

[Rivercider]

Were they to PBA, or for the fuel depot at Shirehampton?

Those 4 wheel Tex Tanks (as we called them) were from the PBA and ran two or three times a week.

 

Shirehampton received trains of bogie tanks from one of the Milford Haven refineries when I knew it,

they went back discharged via Clifton Down to East Depot to run round, then up Filton bank to South Wales,

 

cheers

[HillsideDepot]

Thank you Kevin, that's very useful information.

 

One thing I haven't mentioned yet is that I am planning a small scenic extension to the layout, about 9 inches or so beyond the stop blocks which will include another "cabin", and having information on staffing levels will allow me to plan that building more realistically. I'll also be able to provide a suitable level of staff transport, few cars in the early '70s, but probably another motorbike, perhaps a scooter and some bicycles. All part of setting a convincing scene.

 

Your notes also help me better understand how the various flows would be worked. I did know about wagon pools, but it hadn't registered with me that even relatively small, but regular, flows would have their own wagons. A point now noted and ready for application to the schedule and operation.

 

At the moment (and things are still under development) I have a morning trip arriving at 0850 with the loco heading off light for its next working. This will bring in the main wagon load traffic. There is a second trip in the late morning which works through to New Cut Goods Depot, but can drop wagons at Mortimore's. This returns via Mortimore's Yard in the early afternoon, running back to Queensland Road. There is a late afternoon trip to Mortimore's Yard working out and back from Stoke Gifford (or would STJ be a more likely destination?) to give connections to the north and along the South Wales main line in both directions, with an early evening pick-up for North Depot which I imagine as a sort-of "sweep up" of, in the main, empty wagons as it's probably a bit late for long distance connections. This might be over provision, I've been trying to work it so wagons need to go on certain trips to make their connections rather than having a "catch all", which would be a bit boring to operate.

 

It's been a while since I did the bulk of the work on the timetable and detail of the Calvert brick traffic has emerged since the current draft, so that is currently not provided for - unless it hitches a lift on the 0850 trip. In many ways scheduling 160 buses and 300 drivers (which I used to do for employment) was easy as there were set limitations. Working up a believable set of workings for Mortimore's Yard is harder as there are so many chicken or egg situations. But each piece of information is a step closer to the goal, even if I have to unpick some of the work to make things more realistic.

 

So thank you once again for sharing your knowledge, and even taking the time to apply it to my fictional world.

[Rivercider]

That level of train service sounds about right, by the late1970s for example there were often 3 or 4 trip moves a day between Kingsland Road and Hallen Marsh, traffic to or from ICI Severnside (fertilizer), Avonmouth (Rowntrees), PBA (tanks, and sometimes coal) might all be worked separately.

These would be in addition to the timetabled services. Also Severn Tunnel Juncion would occasionally send over an extra service if one of the booked ones had been full.

 

Regarding the afternoon out and back working, 'Rail Centres Bristol' by Colin Maggs states that Stoke Gifford Yards closed in October 1971, I think that the Patchway Chord line opened at the same time, this enabled trains from South Wales to run direct to Avonmouth without calling at Stoke to reverse,

 

When thinking of staffing levels, I had forgotten about the carriage and wagon examiner, would you have one full time?

Or perhaps, more likely, one of the area mobile men might call at certain times of the day, wagons would need examining before outwards trains departed especially if they were passing through the Severn Tunnel. The mobile C&W man must have had a van of some sort, though I don't remember what,

 

cheers  

Edited April 28, 2016 by Rivercider

[Fat Controller]

That level of train service sounds about right, by the late1970s for example there were often 3 or 4 trip moves a day between Kingsland Road and Hallen Marsh,

traffic to or from ICI Severnside (fertilizer), Avonmouth (Rowntrees), PBA (tanks, and sometimes coal) might all be worked separately.

These would be in addition to the timetabled services. Also Severn Tunnel Juncion would occasionally send over an extra service if one of the booked ones had been full.

 

Regarding the afternoon out and back working, 'Rail Centres Bristol' by Colin Maggs states that Stoke Gifford Yards closed in October 1971,

I think that the Patchway Chord line opened at the same time, this enabled trains from South Wales to run direct to Avonmouth without calling at Stoke to reverse,

 

When thinking of staffing levels, I had forgotten about the cariage and wagon examiner, would you have one full time?

Or perhaps, more likely, one of the area mobile men might call at certain times of the day, wagons would need examining before outwards trains departed

especially if they were passing through the Severn Tunnel. The mobile C&W man must have had a van of some sort, though I don't remember what,

 

cheers  

Viva HA or Escort van for the Wagon Examiner? There might be occasional visits by a Movements Inspector, if a new traffic, or type of wagon, arrived on the scene- possibly just using a car, rather than a van.

I hadn't realised that the Patchway Chord was such a late arrival.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Fat Controller

[HillsideDepot]

(I wasn't going to post this one as the depth of field is awful, and the focus dodgy, but as it's relevant....)

 

Guess who was at Mortimore's Yard as I walked past the gates at lunchtime.

 

Thank you for the continuing additions to my knowledge base, I hope I can use them to enhance the layout and its operation. The plans for the small scenic extension have been dusted off this afternoon and various ideas are being tried, certainly that project has a new impetus and direction now.

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[HillsideDepot]

No.1 Pilot today is green "celebrity" 03382. This turn has to be a 203h.p. loco (TOPS codes still aren't universal amongst staff; old habits die hard) as there is a severe restriction on axle weights over a bridge on the Hotwells Branch.

 

 

Once the Pilot has shuffled some wagons in the yard it will set off along the Hotwells Branch with the daily trip, This serves Herber Denty's timber yard at Baltic Wharf, Holms Sand & Gravel Ltd at Pooles Wharf and Charles Hill & Sons Ltd shipyard right at the end of the remaining line. But neither Denty's or Hill's see much traffic now, the branch surviving to serve Holms'.

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[Andrew P]

Lovely scenic there Adrian, I love the up shot, really good.

 

Well done.

[37114]

Lovely shot there Adrian, love the trailer by the hut as well, a nice touch

[HillsideDepot]

The main morning trip working which serves Mortimore's Yard and it's customers around the docks network is the 0808 from Queensland Road (which I had down as 8T80, based on the style of numbering in a 1960's Trip Working book, but further information received this week - thanks Kevin - suggest the T should be a B in the '70s, but I need to properly study the new data).

Here Brush type 4 1723 creeps to the head shunt while No.2 Pilot works at the other end of the train shunting the wagons into the sidings for onward delivery.  
 

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[rob D2]

I love this layout - so plausible !

[class"66"]

Very nice layout setup here...

[HillsideDepot]

Class 47 No. 1723 brought in a number of Shocvans loaded with tinplate for export via New Cut Goods Depot and here we see the class 08 working as No.2 Pilot placing the vans on No.2 siding before dealing with the rest of the train.

 

The 08 will later work these vans through to their destination.

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[HillsideDepot]

As well as the Shocvans loaded with tinplate for export the morning trip also brought in these hoppers of foundry sand for Westinghouse Brake and Signal Company. Temporarily left on No.1 siding while the class 08 working as No. 2 Pilot collects a brake van these hoppers will shortly be tripped the very short distance to the Pew Hill Sidings of Westinghouse and be handed over to their shunting tractor.

 

 

With the brake van now attached to the rear the class 08 is ready to deliver the sand to the customer. 

 

In just a few minutes the Pilot will return with the brake van. A quick shunt onto the vans of tinplate and then time for a brew in the cabin before departing for New Cut Goods to satisfy another customer.

 

Note to self - get on and paint those vac pipes!!

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[HillsideDepot]

Thanks for all the "likes" - it's good to know others see something in my little world of make believe.

 

As mentioned in post #28 I have been thinking for a while of building a small extension beyond the stops so that the layout includes the railway boundary, and a hint of what is beyond. One driver for this mini extension is to provide a better photographic background for shots that way. I'm still playing with designs, with ideas, adjusting sizes and gradually developing the scene. It reminds me of the very beginnings of Mortimore's when the plans cluttered up my floor for several weeks as I made sure I was completely happy with what I had.

I have drawn up the end 6 inches of the existing layout as that is was intended to stay the same (apart from the Peco stops being replaced by Lanarkshire Models versions). But as I have continued to play with ideas I have decided that a small track extension will open up new opportunities, not least in the photograph department. The real motivation for the track extension was to try to get the scene to look believable.

As well as drawing up the end of the current layout, and adding the proposed extension I have also added an area of paper covering the land in front of the layout and slightly beyond the end. Although this won't be modelled I feel that I need to know something of what exists beyond the baseboard to get angles correct and so different aspects of the scene fit together.   

 

My current pondering revolves around what the layout will look like with a "slice" through the terrain I have imagined. Will the items towards the edge of the baseboard make sense to the viewer without the next few inches also being modelled. I am also not sure about the rear corner of the layout and how I will blend together the aspects I want to include.

But it is slowly coming together, there might even be some three dimensional construction work soon. I'm just starting a fortnight summer holiday, but rather than going away I am planning a series of day activities. So if the weather stays as it currently is the extension is likely to make progress, if it dries up I will think about the layout whilst hiking, cycling, kayaking and scuba diving. Well, possibly not much thinking time scuba diving; that's all new to me so I'll probably have enough to do remembering all the instructor said!

"A picture?" you say - oh, go on then... (but don't read too much in to some of what is shown!)
  

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[Kiwi_Ed]

Hello Adrian,

 

Compliments on your layout! Very happy for have found this topic and I'm sure to be following your progress.

 

I'm a big fan of layouts that have an operational purpose, I think it makes 'playing with trains' a whole lot more interested.

You've probably come across this one yourself but this is the topic that really made me realise that I needed a layout which actually had a purpose (instead of just a thing to watch trains run by): http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73204-along-the-chapeltown-loop And yours is definitely up there with it!

 

Keep up the good work and thanks for more inspiration!

 

Edwin

Edited June 19, 2015 by Kiwi_Ed

[Calnefoxile]

Thanks for your comments and "likes".

 

Sadly the layout isn't named after Clive, although there may be a family connection somewhere back in history. Mortimore & Son was the coal merchant formerly based at Chippenham station. Their old offices still stand and are now a listed building.

P1010028.JPGP1010358.JPG

Hopefully the model captures the feel of the original. It was quite a challenge as the building appears to have had many alterations over the years, each one in a different style of planking!

 

 

This is a great layout Adrian, and I wish you'd bring it back out for Calne or Chippenham shows sometime soon.

 

I would like to say that this building is now the home of Bentley Model Railway Group, and I don't think it's many alterations over the years, more like replacing rotting wood over the years!!!

 

We have to keep painting it every couple of years in the same shade of green due to the listing, but at the moment I think it's just the layers of paint keeping the wood from falling off!!!

 

Regards

 

Neal

Chairman

BMRG

[HillsideDepot]

Hello Adrian,

 

Compliments on your layout! Very happy for have found this topic and I'm sure to be following your progress.

 

I'm a big fan of layouts that have an operational purpose, I think it makes 'playing with trains' a whole lot more interested.

You've probably come across this one yourself but this is the topic that really made me realise that I needed a layout which actually had a purpose (instead of just a thing to watch trains run by): http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73204-along-the-chapeltown-loop And yours is definitely up there with it!

 

Keep up the good work and thanks for more inspiration!

 

Edwin

 

Thank you for the compliments, Edwin.

 

The operation of the layout has always been important to me, by first "proper" layout, Hillside Depot, had a full working timetable, with some trains running on specific days of the week and various ways of deciding if various "as required" trains were running or not and where Hillside had to service, stable or provide power. Life got really interesting when a "motive power shortage" meant lower powered locos started turning up on things!

The Chapeltown Loop series was a great inspiration to progress beyond a rough idea of traffics to a full blown set of workings which are currently being developed. I haven't decided exactly how to work the system, but eventually the number of wagons on each flow each day will be dictated by some sort of card system. 

 

I can't promise rapid progress, but things will slowly develop at Mortimore's Yard, in amongst numerous other "distractions"!

[HillsideDepot]

This is a great layout Adrian, and I wish you'd bring it back out for Calne or Chippenham shows sometime soon.

 

I would like to say that this building is now the home of Bentley Model Railway Group, and I don't think it's many alterations over the years, more like replacing rotting wood over the years!!!

 

We have to keep painting it every couple of years in the same shade of green due to the listing, but at the moment I think it's just the layers of paint keeping the wood from falling off!!!

 

Regards

 

Neal

Chairman

BMRG

Thanks Neal, it may well make an appearance at Chippenham or back at Calne at some time in the future. As plans for the mini extension have progressed it seems likely that there will be a few changes on the existing board, nothing radical, just a few adjustments to make the extra length "fit" better. But given my slow rate of working it may be a while until the layout is complete again - not that I've even completely decided what I'm changing yet!  

The building certainly has character, and I know the layout benefits from following the idiosyncrasies of the real thing; there is now way I could have designed a building to look as varied and interesting without copying something real, even though I make no claims to it being correctly to scale (I think it's close).

[HillsideDepot]

I think that I am now happy with the layout of the new staff building for the mini extension. The exact sizes are still being finalised, and I have got as far as cutting the walls without deciding how big the building will be, although, obviously I can only go smaller! I have worked out likely office sizes, but I think I will end up with a compromise using "selective compression". Six mill off an office might make all the difference to the fit of the building on the layout, and who is going to know the office is 18 inches on the small side (apart from everyone on RMWeb!)?  

 

I think the layout of the building will be [can't find the original photo following the 2022 server problems, this is as close as I have, but the plan referred to is in the background]:

with the front of the building facing the stop blocks. My thinking is that the GWR would have only run the water main and sewage pipes as far as necessary, hence the WC being nearest the yard entrance gate. Next comes the locker room/kitchen area again to keep the pipework to the sink to a minimum. Then a room for the shunters, and finally an office for the boss.

 

As the WC doesn't need the full depth of the building, there is space for a storeroom. The back of the building will be set into the rising ground (continuing the rising contour from the bridge) so the storeroom will need a roof light.

 

The dotted line at the right hand end of the building is a retaining wall, as the land rises behind the building.  

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[Rivercider]

In the 1972 TOPS Pre-implementation survey there is a rudimentary diagram of the brick built block of cabins at West Depot,

I dont think the room sizes are to scale, but probably dictated by the length of the description (ie 'supervisor' is longer than 'mess'!)

 

Toilets   /  A.T.I. Centre   /  Yard Supervisor  /   Mess Room  /  Shunters Cabin  /   Store.

 

Obviously West Depot yard is larger than Mortimore's Yard and has more facilities but the notes do give a clue to the room sizes

as it mentioned that the A.T.I. office that was proposed to be used as the TOPS Office was  approximately 15' x 15', presumably making all the rooms approx 15' deep.

The survey recommended a Portakabin PK36 be supplied as the TOPS Office, though in the event it never was.

 

cheers

[HillsideDepot]

Thanks Kevin, I was looking at the plan of West Depot, and working off the 15' x 15' room dimensions as my guide. I think I have done similar to that document though and made the diagram fit the words rather than the room sizes; my rough pencil sketch plan has proportionately less length given over to the mess room. I suppose some people would just build the building as big as the space available on the layout, but I like to work out what would fit where, if only to help locate windows and doors.

 

I've not done any work on the model since my last post; I'm on leave from work so took the opportunity yesterday to hike with friends, and today I went scuba diving at Vobster (just north of Whatley, in railway terms) and to keep things on topic I actually found a very short off cut of rail 10 metres down. My dive buddy was thinking "Ooh, fish", I was thinking "railway!". It seemed to be a lightweight flat bottom rail, I'm guessing something to do with the quarry workings, but as a novice diver there is quite a lot to get used to without attempting to analyse rusty track profiles! Kayaking is on the menu for tomorrow, so the work bench will have to wait a little longer.

[HillsideDepot]

Lunch time.

The Hymek we saw earlier with the vans for Fry's has now picked up empty timber pulp wagons at Marsh Pond and taken them through to Portishead for loading. At Portishead it picked up a loaded wood pulp train and is now running round it at Mortimore's Yard before the final run down to Marsh Pond.

 

 

The baker and confectioner's shop on the corner of the street (based on a combination of premises own by my maternal grand parents) is a popular spot for workers from Westinghouse, many of whom still cycle (push bikes, or mopeds) to and from work. It's still the era when many men return home for lunch (my father did, right across Chippenham on his moped), but for one MG owner the baker's shop provides the ideal stop for lunch while enjoying a drive with the hood down; perhaps there is a secretary to impress!

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[HillsideDepot]

The London Brick Company uses 6V73, the 2112 MWThO Calvert to Cardiff Company train to drop a portion at Westonmouth in the very early hours of the morning. The loaded wagons are then tripped at about 5 o'clock through to New Cut Goods Depot for distribution by lorry to local building sites.

 

In the afternoon the 6M71 empties are worked back in a different fashion. The train loco leaves the Cardiff portion in Queensland Yard and runs light to Mortimore's Yard to pick up the Westonmouth empties. The wagons are brought up from New Cut by the No.2 Pilot ready for collection.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[HillsideDepot]

The warm sunny afternoon lazily passes, and before long the sound of an approaching Brush Type 4 can be heard; it's two tone "Spoo-ooon" greeting to the signalman being a dead giveaway of what is approaching. This is the afternoon trip working from Royal Edward Yard which returns there as the 15:00 from Mortimore's Yard. This trip can bring traffic in, but it's main role is to take wagons on the first stage of their journeys, usually as "empties" returning for another load.

 

 

The loco, still in original green, but carrying its TOPS number runs slowly to the end of the run round loop, the rails protesting at its weight. In the coal yard the shovelling has stopped for a while as the workers head for a tea break, the sound of their radio balancing on the staith wall, now being drowned by the thrumming of the large Sulzer diesel.

 

The activity is brief though, the Pilot soon has the shunting done and the Brush will stand up at the starting signal, waiting time to depart. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle