cctransuk Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Those of my generation will remember MPD 4mm. scale kits as something that we aspired to, but could rarely afford; I think that they date from the late 1970s. When, later in life, I became a little more solvent I acquired the MPD 3F 0-6-0 kit. I added to the box the requisite Markits wheels, Mashima motor and High Level gearbox - plus a selection of etchings, turnings and castings for added detail - and put the kit into the To Do Sometime box. Having completed my marathon build of a rake of eleven CEMFLOs, I felt that I needed a project that, hopefully, would require less fiddling, bodging and guesstimating - so I got out the MPD 3F kit, and spent this afternoon assembling the rolling chassis. MPD kits had, at the time of their zenith, an enviable reputation for quality and I have to say that this, my first build of one of their products, has so far fulfilled all that I expected. Let me set out my stall - I am very much of the Tony Wright camp. I build 'layout' stock to OO (reasonably) finescale standards; to be used, eventually I hope, on a model of Evercreech Junction (S&DJR) set in 1961. I have tried equalisation, with some success, and springing, with less success. So - chassis are determinedly rigid and reasonable strong; in this case 20 thou. / 0.5 mm. etched nickel silver with no concessions to hornblocks, etc. I determined to assemble the kit pretty much as per the instructions. The chassis spacers are the old square brass tapped blocks to EM width, and the frames and coupling rods (one piece) were cut from the fret with a piercing saw and cleaned up with needle files. Having countersunk the frames and spacers as instructed, I assembled the frames on an old bathroom cabinet mirror. The provision for fitting pick-ups was cleverly provided for with two slots in each frame to take pieces of single-sided PCB, suitably notched to lock into place when the frames were screwed together. Then the Markits RP75 wheels were assembled and fitted into the top hat bearings in the frames, and the standard, basic Romford crankpins screwed into them. The moment of truth - the coupling rods were fitted and temporarily secured with loose crankpin washers and slices of wire insulation. Result? Instant silky smooth running !! No reaming-out of frame axle holes, axle bearings or coupling rod bearing holes !! No axle spacing washers to take up excessive side play, or filing of bearing flanges to allow the wheels to turn - a revealation !! The advantage of the screwed spacers is that the frames can be trued-up by slightly slackening the screws whilst the chassis sits on the mirror, and then locked by retightening the screws. In due course, the joints will be locked with a touch of solder, and the screw heads filled in the same way. I have to say that, having built a number of much more 'technically advanced' loco kits in recent years, this ancient MPD offering has knocked them all into the proverbial cocked hat, so far !! Enough for now - just a couple of photos of the progress to date. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Oh, this brings back memories. I built two of these, not long after they came out; beautiful kits. Well ahead of many of the contemporary offerings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Looks good John, but I'm puzzled by the use of spacers to EM width. If they are correct for 00 they would not be much use for EM. Were there alternative spacers for 00? Rgds Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Looks good John, but I'm puzzled by the use of spacers to EM width. If they are correct for 00 they would not be much use for EM. Were there alternative spacers for 00? Rgds Keith Keith, OO spacers were (are?) so narrow that the frames were ridiculously close together, and needed lots of spacing washers to take up the slack, even on quite sharp curves. The MPD kit had been designed to set the frames at a more sensible spacing; the EM spacers are spot on for OO - more than enough side-play for reasonable radii, and no need for spacing washers. Works for me !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Good start John, I'll follow this with interest. Yes, they really are/were lovely kits. I only ever built the L&Y 0-6-0 but it went together very well and I still have it. The only feature I didn't like was the provision for boiler bands. I don't know if the Midland 3F is the same but the turned brass boiler had grooves turned into it and Plasticard strip was supplied for the bands. This was intended to be glued into these grooves, finishing a little pround of the boiler. Just looked crude and over scale to me so I filled the boiler grooves with Milliput, sanded it smooth, and added bands from thin tape, I, too, have often used EM spacers when building to 00. So long as the supplied frames are not too thick, and you have reasonably generous curves, it both looks better and gives a wider gap 'sink' a motor into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I've used P4 spacers on an EM model. It fits, just! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcmacchipilot Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 This looks very interesting, and the prospect of a SDJR layout is exciting. Please keep posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Good start John, I'll follow this with interest. Yes, they really are/were lovely kits. I only ever built the L&Y 0-6-0 but it went together very well and I still have it. The only feature I didn't like was the provision for boiler bands. I don't know if the Midland 3F is the same but the turned brass boiler had grooves turned into it and Plasticard strip was supplied for the bands. This was intended to be glued into these grooves, finishing a little pround of the boiler. Just looked crude and over scale to me so I filled the boiler grooves with Milliput, sanded it smooth, and added bands from thin tape, I, too, have often used EM spacers when building to 00. So long as the supplied frames are not too thick, and you have reasonably generous curves, it both looks better and gives a wider gap 'sink' a motor into. Arthur, Yes - turned grooves in the thick-walled brass tube boiler. On the face of it, a good way of getting the bands properly aligned, but we'll see. I think I'll try it first - probably blending the bands into the grooves with a smear of Miliput; if it looks crude, I can sand the boiler flush and add tape bands. Next is the brakegear - and I'll deviate from the rather basic provision in the kit to use a better, more recent alternative. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 What else did they do? The L&Y and Midland 0-6-0s, and also a Midland 0-6-0T I recall, anything else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I have a half built one of these. It is, of course, in a box like a few other half built kits. The problem is I build to EM standards and the splashers don't give enough clearance. I have worked out a solution but while I thought about it, I moved on to other things. That was several years ago. Generally a good kit. I have built the Gibson version as well and there is nothing to choose between them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Another afternoon's work and the brakegear is on. The kit was clearly not designed to have brakegear - that was the sole preserve of scratchbuilding odd-balls in those far-off days !! However, it would seem that a representation, in injection moulded plastic, of Midland brake hangers and shoes (Slaters?) became available before the kit was released. Anyway, a set is included and some holes for the hanger pivots are etched into the frames. This being 2015, I elected to use Mainly Trains excellent etch for LMS loco brakegear, which includes a set for Midland 0-6-0s. This is a lovely etch and easy to solder up using 0.7mm. brass wire pivots. I made some upper hanger rods with telescopic wire and tube, so that the top of the brake hangers just clip into place - this makes it a doddle to remove the brakegear during subsequent construction and maintenance. The pull rods are simply 0.7mm. brass wire soldered to the brake rods - crude but robust; and what is needed on a workhorse IMHO. So - progress continues apace !! Regards, John Isherwood. PS. This afternoon's efforts were the first outing for my new Lidl soldering station. Cheap it was - but it works a treat !! Another Lidl purchase, an ultrasonic cleaning bath, is superb at removing the grot that builds up each session. What looks like grot / lumpy solder is simply a fine film of solder, to be cleaned off prior to priming the frames. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 John Very nice build. Something that has me puzzled is will it run properly on a radius as there does not look as if there is much sideways movement between the frames and the rear of the wheels? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 John Very nice build. Something that has me puzzled is will it run properly on a radius as there does not look as if there is much sideways movement between the frames and the rear of the wheels? Pete Yep - no problem. A little push and it rolls through a Peco Code 75 medium radius reverse curve - a crossover on my triple track shunting plank seen in the photo - no difficulty whatsoever. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 So it has not got to go through any curved track then John? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 So it has not got to go through any curved track then John? Pete, I don't follow you - I stated "...a crossover on my triple track shunting plank seen in the photo...". What you see in the foreground of the photos above are crossovers between the three parallel tracks of the test plank; the crossovers comprise pairs of LH or RH medium radius points placed end to end. The chassis rolls quite happily through the reverse curve formed by the two curved tracks of any pair of points. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Ok John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Whilst sourcing the additional components for this project, I have come across a source of these motors; http://www.mitsumi.c...n3series_e.html . They are midway between the 1220 and 1620 flat can motor, with a double-ended 1.5mm. dia. shaft which projects approximately 12mm. at either end. Study the .pdf spec. sheet and the dimensions drop-down - these quality Japanese motors seem to be ideally suited to model railway use, and will screw directly to High Level etc. gearboxes. I have purchased ten for my own use, and will be installing one in the MPD 3F in place of the intended Mashima 1620; but I see no reason why it should not perform to a standard comparable to the Mashima. The remaining supply of these motors is limited - certainly less than two hundred units. I am contemplating obtaining the remaining stock, and could make these available to RMweb members for £7.00 each including UK P&P. As the similar Mashima motors currently sell for around £17.00 plus P&P, this would seem to be a one-off opportunity to acquire a stock of quality motors against future modelling requirements. If you are interested in acquiring one or more of these motors, please PM me ASAP. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 When I built in 4mm to EM gauge, I ever only had side play on the centre drivers of a six coupled. It is surprising how little you can get away with, unless you are going round toy curves. Nice build so far, I do like these archaic 0-6-0's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Melrose Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Hi, You may find the attached table informative. I appreciate it is for P4 standards but I hope you can glean sufficient detail from it to be useful in the narrower gauges. Stan Hi, You may find the attached table informative. I appreciate it is for P4 standards but I hope you can glean sufficient detail from it to be useful in the narrower gauges. Stan Table of theoretical minimum radius P4 curves Figures in the main columns (shown in inches) are the radii that a six wheeled vehicle will traverse. The figures in the top row represent the end float in the middle axle in millimetres, while those in the left hand column are the centre - outer axle distance (half the wheelbase) in scale feet. 0.00 0.25 0.50 0.75 1.00 6 29.83 17.99 12.87 10.01 8.19 6.5 35.01 21.11 15.10 11.75 9.62 7 40.61 24.48 17.52 13.64 11.16 7.5 46.61 28.11 20.12 15.66 12.81 8 53.04 31.98 22.89 17.82 14.58 8.5 59.88 36.11 25.84 20.12 16.46 9 67.13 40.48 28.97 22.55 18.46 9.5 74.80 45.11 32.28 25.13 20.57 10 82.88 49.98 35.77 27.85 22.80 10.5 91.37 55.11 39.44 30.71 25.14 11 100.28 60.48 43.29 33.70 27.59 11.5 109.61 66.10 47.32 36.84 30.16 12 119.35 71.98 51.52 40.11 32.84 12.5 129.50 78.10 55.91 43.53 35.63 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 That just shows that in EM and OO, even 7mm fine scale how little side play is required with all the extra slop in the track wheel relationship. Very useful. I may copy and convert to 7mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 On Thursday I added the pick-ups - simple loops of thin phosphor bronze wire bearing on the edges of the flanges, behind the brake shoes. Today, I am pleased to report that, having fitted a Mitsumi motor to a High Level 60:1 Loadhauler gearbox, and mounted this combination in the 3F frames, I have what I believe to be the sweetest-running chassis that I have ever built. (.... and that's quite a few)! http://www.mitsumi.co.jp/latest/Catalog/compo/motorav/m15n3series_e.html I get the impression that these Mitsumi motors are lower-revving than Mashima motors, but they have plenty of torque and are beautifully smooth-running and quiet. Using one of my trusty H&M Walkabout controllers, the top speed of this 0-6-0 slogger is as close to that of the prototype as I could wish - ie. a sprightly but not unseemly canter!! This is ideal - I have the full range of the controller slider to drive the loco from a barely perceptible crawl to a realistic top speed. The fitted fly-wheel gives a satisfying impression of momentum, even with a lightweight bare chassis. So, I can with confidence recommend the MPD 3F kit, the High Level gearbox and, above all, the Mitsumi motors. I have taken the plunge and bought the remaining stock of motors - 215 units - and am offering them to list members at £7.00 each including UK P&P. (The equivalent Mashima motor is currently priced about £17.00 plus P&P. I already have reservations for in excess of 50 motors, and when they're gone, they're gone !! (One potential customer has reserved 30 motors). I normally confine my activities strictly to transfers, but these motors are just too good to let pass. I will publish purchasing arrangements when the motors are to hand, tested and packed. (I will be including two M2 fixing screws with each motor). If you want one or more of these motors whilst they are available, PM me now to reserve your requirements. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 I have had an enquiry from Australia about postal costs. Royal Mail International Standard, at cost, but around £3.30 for up to five motors. Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonseasider Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I cleared it with John before posting this, so please don't think I'm trying to hijack the thread! Over the years I've built 3 of these kits (and 2 of the same manufacturer's L&Y 0-6-0) and I thoroughly enjoyed doing all of them. One of the 3Fs was for my own use and must now be approaching 35 years old. Originally built with a rigid chassis, I used it to experiment with Perseverance hornblocks & a compensation beam some 20 - 25 years ago. Eventually the motor died & the loco sat in its box until last year when it was fitted with a Mashima flat-can & High Level 54:1 Road Runner gearbox. It's now back in use as one of the regular performers on Tormouth Quay. Based on 43218 - one of the ex-S&D locos - I think it should also have sanding gear on the front drivers but I've never got round to fitting it . . . . As mentioned in an earlier post, the boiler band is a little prominent, but I don't think it looks too bad. Photos attached show it "on the cobbles" on the quayside (where it doesn't usually venture - that area's normally the preserve of the dock shunters). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Further testing of the chassis in which I have installed the Mitsumi motor confirms that these motors are the best that I have used. http://www.mitsumi.c...n3series_e.html In combination with the High Level Loadhauler gearbox running is virtually silent - just wheel noise and a faint purr from the gears. They are selling extremely fast - if you are considering ordering, or would like to increase an existing order, act fast. I'll be releasing details to the model press later today and then it'll be too late !! Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. cctrans@hotmail.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Based on 43218 - one of the ex-S&D locos - I think it should also have sanding gear on the front drivers but I've never got round to fitting it . . . . Mine will be 43194 - another of the S&D Bulldogs - and yes, they did have front sandboxes !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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