Wooden bodied mineral wagons

[petethemole]

The current topic on 9 plank mineral wagons led me to the idea of a thread devoted to the wooden bodied mineral wagon in all its forms, private owner and railway company,  prototype and model.

 

Suggested subjects would include:

 

Links to photos of the prototype in service, pre-1948 and BR.

Photos and links to preserved examples.

Discussion and examples of livery, or lack of, and weathering. 

Discussion of RTR models, their accuracy of type or livery.

Kits, kitbashes, RTR conversions and scratchbuilds.

Model finishing: transfers, hand lettering, colours, weathering.

Suggestions for reference sources, printed and on line.

 

There have been many threads featuring these topics and there was extensive discussion about the forthcoming Oxford Rail wagons. The variations in size, type and livery are fascinating and I think a thread to concentrate information and discussion of this type would be useful. Links to previous relevant threads would be helpful.

 

If people think it's a good idea hopefully they'll contribute.

 

I'll kick off with some images I found while searching for 9 plank wagons:

 

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p210252395/h754CB76#h30a5016

 

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p210252395/h754CB76#ha081543

 

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p210252395/h754CB76#h754cb76

 

Note P344560, a steel underframe RCH 1923 type with open spoke wheels. The metalwork is painted grey but the planks are a mix of weathered wood, remnants of a PO livery with the lettering almost worn off, and black patches, probably applied during WW2 for the small lettering of the period, subsequently painted over by BR. It has markings for bottom doors but has Morton brakes with a cross-shaft, theoretically a no-no.

 

Pete

 

[Metr0Land]

I love the little trestle table in the 3rd pic.  That's something you don't see often?

[Fat Controller]

So that 'Charringtons' livery is authentic......

Many years later, it was revived on some BR-owned 21t hoppers used on anthracite traffic to Charrington-operated Coal Concentration Depots in the South East of England.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

For me, the clear difference in appearance from steel bodied wagons is the lasting impression. Here comes the great caravan taking coal up to London. The steel bodied 16 tonners and 21T hoppers - even the earlier builds that are now rusting and somewhat dented - present a crisp top line of uniform profile in height and width. Groups of wooden bodied wagons stand out as 'ragged'. Side height, width, profile quite often slightly bulging, and 'texture' of the sides. Very distinctive, and RTR wooden bodied wagons are not nearly untidy enough for a mid-fifties onwards coal wagon.

 

For modelling purposes I have the steel wagons almost solely from a single RTR source by type, the wooden bodied from a large array of kit builds, which begins to satisfy the profile variation requirement for the latter. Applied damage does the rest.

[Spitfire2865]

Id say, for wooden wagons, RTR offerings are mostly horrible. Inaccurate bodies on incorrect chassis'.

Also, anything early grouping or pregrouping is untouched.

Im surprised the standard LMS 5 plank hasnt been touched by RTR manufacturers. And covered by only one kit manufacturer.

 

On the topic of building wagons, Ive built a few in 4mm with actual wood. Its a pain to cut each plank to size, but it results in actual wooden bodies. Though painting it is a bit difficult and decals are limited to pressfix.

Ive now built 4 opens and one brake van in wood. Still working on strapping though. Etch would be best.

[Fat Controller]

Id say, for wooden wagons, RTR offerings are mostly horrible. Inaccurate bodies on incorrect chassis'.

Also, anything early grouping or pregrouping is untouched.

Im surprised the standard LMS 5 plank hasnt been touched by RTR manufacturers. And covered by only one kit manufacturer.

 

On the topic of building wagons, Ive built a few in 4mm with actual wood. Its a pain to cut each plank to size, but it results in actual wooden bodies. Though painting it is a bit difficult and decals are limited to pressfix.

Ive now built 4 opens and one brake van in wood. Still working on strapping though. Etch would be best.

Strapping and corner-plates are (were?) available from Mainly Trains:- http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/4mm-wag-par-various.html

[The Bigbee Line]

The tree wagon images are superb.  The 'Charringtons' wagon looks like it's suppying loco's with coal from the simplest of coal stages.  An ideal thing to model.

[Spitfire2865]

Strapping and corner-plates are (were?) available from Mainly Trains:- http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/4mm-wag-par-various.html

I meant without resorting to an etch.

[31A]

Id say, for wooden wagons, RTR offerings are mostly horrible. Inaccurate bodies on incorrect chassis'.

Also, anything early grouping or pregrouping is untouched.

Im surprised the standard LMS 5 plank hasnt been touched by RTR manufacturers. And covered by only one kit manufacturer.

 

On the topic of building wagons, Ive built a few in 4mm with actual wood. Its a pain to cut each plank to size, but it results in actual wooden bodies. Though painting it is a bit difficult and decals are limited to pressfix.

Ive now built 4 opens and one brake van in wood. Still working on strapping though. Etch would be best.

 

Surely the Bachmann Private Owner wagons in their various forms are pretty good models of RCH 1923 specification wagons?

[Arthur]

Ive now built 4 opens and one brake van in wood. Still working on strapping though. Etch would be best.

 

I meant without resorting to an etch.

 

Sorry, you've lost me there about the strapping. Etch would be best but you don't want to resort to it? How are you modelling it? I'm interested as I have a project in mind which will require 'riveted' strapping type strips.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Surely the Bachmann Private Owner wagons in their various forms are pretty good models of RCH 1923 specification wagons?

In that the principal dimensions and features are correct (generally true of their wagon models) they have an immediate advantage over most RTR models from earlier tooling. A fairly prominent detail - the capping clips - marks out the seven plank as being in 'late' condition, wartime and BR period; which strictly means no colourful PO livery in freshly applied condition. The eight plank variation is a capping clip free zone...

 

The point about a lack of the most common 'five plank' general merchandise open for the grouping and after period is a good one. But of course this wagon can only carry a company or BR livery, and not the multitude of PO names and colour schemes. The nearest thing is the Airfix tooled item in Hornby's range: a late 1930s design with a wooden body on steel underframe; decently representative in appearance of what was built by all the Big Four immediately before and during WWII and just into the inception of BR. Great choice of subject by Airfix, Hornby march it out unimproved with the old huge couplers and still visibly crudely clipped together. But it can be quickly improved.

[31A]

In that the principal dimensions and features are correct (generally true of their wagon models) they have an immediate advantage over most RTR models from earlier tooling. A fairly prominent detail - the capping clips - marks out the seven plank as being in 'late' condition, wartime and BR period; which strictly means no colourful PO livery in freshly applied condition. The eight plank variation is a capping clip free zone...

 

The point about a lack of the most common 'five plank' general merchandise open for the grouping and after period is a good one. But of course this wagon can only carry a company or BR livery, and not the multitude of PO names and colour schemes. The nearest thing is the Airfix tooled item in Hornby's range: a late 1930s design with a wooden body on steel underframe; decently representative in appearance of what was built by all the Big Four immediately before and during WWII and just into the inception of BR. Great choice of subject by Airfix, Hornby march it out unimproved with the old huge couplers and still visibly crudely clipped together. But it can be quickly improved.

A pity in some ways that the moulds for the Airfix 'five plank' ended up with Hornby rather than Bachmann, as mounting the body on one of the 'new generation'  Bachmann 17' 6" underframes would be an easy way for a manufacturer to produce a 'open high' comparable with current models.  I've upgraded several myself, but using Parkside bits for the underfarmes.

[chris p bacon]

I'm just building a selection of D&S and 51L whitemetal kits of pre-grouping open wagons and vans, with only a bit of ref material to refer to I'm willing to take some minor compromises due to the number I need.

Generally they're pretty good (that's before I start building them) ...

[Talltim]

I've got some of these to build. Is that what you were thinking of?

http://www.amesvilleshops.com/PRRGA.htm

[Spitfire2865]

Sorry, you've lost me there about the strapping. Etch would be best but you don't want to resort to it? How are you modelling it? I'm interested as I have a project in mind which will require 'riveted' strapping type strips.

  

I was...or still am, trying to find a scratchbuilt representation of strapping without buying etches. I had good results with card for the corner plates. Though my bolt work needs improving.

Though the strapping still needs work. Maybe more card? Plastic is definitely too thick fir most wagons.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just building a selection of D&S and 51L whitemetal kits of pre-grouping open wagons and vans, with only a bit of ref material to refer to I'm willing to take some minor compromises due to the number I need.

Generally they're pretty good (that's before I start building them) ...

Ohh! Which kits. I may be able to assist with reference.

Ive built One 51L kit so far, the MR long low, and it was a fantastic kit aside from the brake gear which required quite a bit of fiddling to get it all lined up correctly. Also, my only wagon with a proper moulded horse hook and not a blob to represent it.

[chris p bacon]

Ohh! Which kits. I may be able to assist with reference.

Ive built One 51L kit so far, the MR long low, and it was a fantastic kit aside from the brake gear which required quite a bit of fiddling to get it all lined up correctly. Also, my only wagon with a proper moulded horse hook and not a blob to represent it.

I've just put together 3 GN Implement wagons and then just about to start a NER perishables a cattle and a GN brake (can't remember the dia no's) waiting for more wheels and couplings to come.

[Arthur]

 

Thanks for clarifying that, I can understand the desire to 'make it yourself' especially having one to the trouble of doing your own planking. Looks very good.

[highpeak]

Sorry, you've lost me there about the strapping. Etch would be best but you don't want to resort to it? How are you modelling it? I'm interested as I have a project in mind which will require 'riveted' strapping type strips.

One option might be thin card or styrene and then the Archer rivet decals? You may need to cut them up a bit, but they are perhaps a bit quicker and easier than the noggins of styrene approach, not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that.

[Arthur]

 

Thanks, I was looking at Archer rivets at the Bristol show just last Friday. Unfortunately the Trader didn't have the ones I would need but I will give them a try.

[billbedford]

The big question about wooden wagons I have is: does anyone know of colour photos of the interiors of these wagons while in service? I'm especially interested in merchandise wagons but minerals would be of interest.

[31A]

The big question about wooden wagons I have is: does anyone know of colour photos of the interiors of these wagons while in service? I'm especially interested in merchandise wagons but minerals would be of interest.

 

It's probably a rather esoteric reference, but there's a nice colour picture of the goods yard at Carlton Towers station (on the ex Hull & Barnsley) on the rear cover of 'Railways in East Yorkshire Volume One' (Martin Bairstow, Amadeus Press, 2002 - no ISBN).  The picture is taken from an elevated viewpoint and shows six open merchandise wagons in a siding, of which five have wooden bodies and the sixth is an LNER design all steel wagon.  The wooden wagons clearly have unpainted interiors which really amounts to various shades of grey.

 

I've tried to copy the colour in these models, although in fact the real ones are actually somewhat darker, and more varied:

 

[petethemole]

The big question about wooden wagons I have is: does anyone know of colour photos of the interiors of these wagons while in service? I'm especially interested in merchandise wagons but minerals would be of interest.

 

Bill, you have a PM

 

Pete

[petethemole]

Some examples in traffic, BR period:

 

Assorted weathered and repaired wagons, probably mostly ex-PO, 1951:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grimethorpe_northbound_coal_train_on_Dearne_Valley_line_geograph-2761440-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

The leading wagons, all wooden underframe types that look like RCH 1923 pattern, have been repainted BR grey, 1959: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2924906

 

A couple of well weathered and repaired examples in a right assortment of wagon types, 1962: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2149044

 

Nice coke wagon: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/8444887579/

 

Pete

[hmrspaul]

There are a few near the end of their lives in http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/privateownerwagon

 

The HMRS photo collection has some P wooden wagons.

 

They were, of course, unpainted internally.

 

Pau

[Porcy Mane]

The big question about wooden wagons I have is: does anyone know of colour photos of the interiors of these wagons while in service? I'm especially interested in merchandise wagons but minerals would be of interest.

Although not general merchandise wagons, there is a series of colour photographs by Dick Riley in the May edition of Steam Days. One shows the inside of empty steel hoppers being used for Oxfordshire ironstone at Wroxton in 1957.

There is a 13 ton wooden hopper amongst them. I've never seen the inside of model hoppers weathered that way.

I don't normally buy the mainstream railway mags but I bought that one just for that picture.

 

Porcy

 

ps,

and there's this:

 

https://flic.kr/p/e5UNvH

 not mineral wagons but 5 plankers...

Edited May 6, 2015 by Porcy Mane