Hornby T9 broken motor housing retainer

[tender]

Dismantled the T9 (which failed at the weekend) this morning and the problem was pretty obvious.

 

 

The front of the motor housing retainer casting had sheared off (It should look like the circled part in the diagram) allowing the front of the motor to raise and the worm disengage from the gearing.

 

Unfortunately (after a call to Hornby Spares) this is not available as a spare (hence no part number on the service sheet) which is strange as this seems to be a common fault. Short of a complete chassis purchase my only option is to superglue the motor in place as I don't think there's enough 'meat' in the casting to effect a strong enough repair.

If anyone has another idea please shout.

 

Ray.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The adhesive I would choose for this purpose is Evostick, very easy to release should that ever be necessary. Needs the 'full strength' solvent based version, and give it 48 hours to really go off before running the loco. So much for a simple DIY fix to get the model running.

 

Something of a question mark over the design of the failed part, and the material quality.

 

Is it simply too weak as a design for the load it has to carry? ( In which case the breaks will probably be shiny.)  it needs more metal cross-section connecting the motor bed element and the motor retainer and worm cover element, with nicely radiused corners between the elements.

 

Or is the design OK, but there is a materials problem, our old friend 'zinc pest' or 'mazak rot'. Inspect the failed piece, any signs of the paint cracking which would indicate the alloy is degrading, or dull grey metal on the broken surfaces?

[tender]

The adhesive I would choose for this purpose is Evostick, very easy to release should that ever be necessary. Needs the 'full strength' solvent based version, and give it 48 hours to really go off before running the loco. So much for a simple DIY fix to get the model running.

 

Something of a question mark over the design of the failed part, and the material quality.

 

Is it simply too weak as a design for the load it has to carry? ( In which case the breaks will probably be shiny.) it needs more metal cross-section connecting the motor bed element and the motor retainer and worm cover element, with nicely radiused corners between the elements.

 

Or is the design OK, but there is a materials problem, our old friend 'zinc pest' or 'mazak rot'. Inspect the failed piece, any signs of the paint cracking which would indicate the alloy is degrading, or dull grey metal on the broken surfaces?

I think it's a combination of both. There is very little meat where the motor bed joins the worm cover which also holds down the front of the motor. Looking at the break the metal is a dull grey so there could be some degregation as well.

I've now glued the motor in position and when it's had a chance to harden will give it a try.

Edited May 5, 2015 by tender

[Il Grifone]

It certainly looks like yet another example of 'mazak pest' - the give away is a grey crystalline appearance at the break. There is no excuse for this in this day and age; the cause was discovered over 60 years ago. Unfortunately there is no cure, though keeping the item dry and at room temperature will delay the effects, Araldite* is probably the best adhesive IMHO and I would drill a hole through both parts and insert a piece of wire to reinforce the joint.

 

* The proper slow curing type, rather than the 'five minute' version. Cooking it the oven improves (and speeds up) the joint, but I wouldn't advise it, seeing the condition of the part.

 

This may be useful (sorry it's in Italian, but Google translate should help). (I'm not too convinced with the recommendation of tetrachloroethylene/carbon tetrachloride  however.)

 

http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/Tecnica/Curare_peste_zama.htm

Edited May 6, 2015 by Il Grifone

[Londontram]

You say you've tried Hornby but have you tried Pete's spares he stocks a lot of Hornby parts and check out Hornby T9 on ebay there's often lots of parts on there as well

[Il Grifone]

It's obviously a common fault, which makes the 'no spares' even less excusable!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-r2813-southern-sr-t9-class-4-4-0-dcc-x3-chassis-for-spares-all-in-picture-/261873216856?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf8dc2d58

[Londontram]

Looks like he needs to go down the glue route then but I like your idea of the wire wrapped round and twisted tight.

      I might even have a punt on those chassis on the off chance that something can be done with them, mind you watch them go for silly money in the last few mins.

[Prometheus]

I have several T9s, is it possible to identify a specific batch which exhibits this problem ? The multiple sales on eBay all appear to come from a Southern Suburban trainpack release.

 

Tony

[tender]

Thanks for all the advice, I've now glued down the motor and it's running a dream. In fact I did away with the mounting block altogether and stuck the motor straight onto the chassis, this gives a much better mesh between the worm and gearbox taking out most of the backlash between the motor and the wheels.

I did try a few of the usual 'spares' suppliers but to no avail. Not surprising as Hornby don't even list it.

Ray.

Edited May 6, 2015 by tender

[Bill]

 

By way of confirmation -

I tried running my T9 - it is the Southern version from the train pack - today.

(It had not been out of its box for almost 4 years.)

Now it worked wonderfully well going forwards -

But backwards was a shock - it juddered

Then eventually ran but it sounded like the proverbial box of rusty spanners.

I found this worrying - an investigation seemed to be called for...

SO

I tried to remove the body as per Hornby's instructions..

It was a little stiff - but a bit of gentle prying and it eventually separated from the chassis.

What then happened was a story in several parts.

Bits fell out..

The front motor housing was nowhere to be seen.

The rear motor support had literally rotted off..

The front motor housing was jammed up in the body - it must have swelled slightly..

And it took a bit to pry it loose...

 

 

 

 

 

 

So my advice to anyone who has this model is to check it out - It might well effect every single last one of them.

( If it happens to me then the general rule is it also happened to everyone else!)

 

Glue..

Now what kind of glue will make a good fix -as this one has rotted both fore and aft.

Will super glue do the job? Or do I need to hunt down some Canadian equivalent to EVO stick -

(What would be the name of the type that I would need?)

 

But even if it is glued the fix may only be temporary as the cover over the worm gear may not have finished expanding and it was already jammed tightly into the body... I saw what happened to the Hornby 31 diesels..

 

In general I really do not seem to be having much luck with Hornby steam!

Edited September 7, 2015 by Bill

[Andrew F]

I found the same mess when I removed the body from a T9 (BR early crest). It wasn't my loco and I was weathering it for someone else so felt responsible to fix it.

Are the parts available from Hornby yet? This was last year and they did have an 'X' code but were not available at that time so a plastic cradle had to be made up......it was a nightmare......in the end I used card shims on the top of the motor so that when the body was fitted on and screwed in place the gear meshed properly. I was shocked at the build quality.....so many bits of the loco just fell apart. Even the pin for the tender connection just dropped out. Just the mention of a T9 to me can cast a shadow on my day.

[DCB]

Tender   What glue did you use?   I have glued motors on using Araldite in the past and it has held for ten years and then when I needed to change the motor it released when given a sharp tap.  I guess that motor support also holds the layshaft down so maybe running without it will lead to gear mesh problems.    

[alastairq]

Anybody tried silicone RTV for attaching the motor?  

[Baby Deltic]

Hafixs would probably stick that together permanently.

[Andrew F]

Because of the traction tyres a certain amount of torque will test a glue repair. Also how permanently do you want the motor fixed baring in mind that the Hornby parts will probably eventually be available and they will supply them to all owners?. I would definitely use card shims on top of the motor so the screwed down body holds the motor down and in position. The last thing you want are stripped gears that may not be available too.

   

I considered a glue repair a bodge but with the engineering of this loco I guess it's appropriate.

 

I'd rough up the bottom of the motor and the chassis and try hot glue backed up with a fillet of araldite on each side of the motor.

 

Did anyone elses motor retainer backplate disintegrate too? I fabricated one from brass......tricky as the motor wring has to pass through this.

[Bill]

Well mine obviously did - I have acquired some impact glue as suggested..

But have also contacted Hornby, via their site contact page, about this issue.

So I am not going to try to bodge up a fix just yet..

I'll wait until Hornby replies - (unless it looks like Hell is about to freeze over!)

Many thanks for all your advice and experiences so far..

[tender]

Tender   What glue did you use?   I have glued motors on using Araldite in the past and it has held for ten years and then when I needed to change the motor it released when given a sharp tap.  I guess that motor support also holds the layshaft down so maybe running without it will lead to gear mesh problems.    

 

Yep, i used Araldite as well. 

[CPRAIL2011]

Because of the traction tyres a certain amount of torque will test a glue repair. Also how permanently do you want the motor fixed baring in mind that the Hornby parts will probably eventually be available and they will supply them to all owners?. I would definitely use card shims on top of the motor so the screwed down body holds the motor down and in position. The last thing you want are stripped gears that may not be available too.

   

I considered a glue repair a bodge but with the engineering of this loco I guess it's appropriate.

 

I'd rough up the bottom of the motor and the chassis and try hot glue backed up with a fillet of araldite on each side of the motor.

 

Did anyone elses motor retainer backplate disintegrate too? I fabricated one from brass......tricky as the motor wring has to pass through this.

Same issue with mine, R2889 BR 4-4-0 Class T9 30119 Limited Edition, the motor retainer backplate x9945 has disintegrated . I have contacted Hornby, but I would appreciate if you can post a picture of the brass one you fabricated, I may do the same . Thanks in advance.

[Bill]

Hornby got back to me.. as follows...

 

Dear Sir

Thank you for your email and apologies for the delay in responding to you.

If you can supply me with pictures of the damaged parts, and also list the parts that you will require, I will
see if we have them, and if not, then what you will need to do from there.

Kind Regards,

XXXX  XXXXXXXX (name redacted)
Customer Care

A customer has made an enquiry on the Hornby site.

Enquiry type: Complaint
 

XXXXXX Redacted

 

I have sent them the photos and now await their reply.

I'll keep you posted..

 

Bill

Edited September 22, 2015 by Bill

[polybear]

If all modellers with similarly affected locos were to contact Hornby and inform them that they are rejecting the goods as "unfit for purpose" (and therefore expect a full refund/replacement) then that may focus their attention a little.....

(Though I do realise that such action should, under the Sale Of Goods Act, technically be directed at the retailer and not the manufacturer).

 

polybear

Edited September 22, 2015 by polybear

[tender]

I bought another T9 a few months ago to act as a backup for the one i repaired only to find it failed with the same problem after only a few minutes use at the weekend. I suppose i should send it back but i already had it weathered and would probably only get another one that will eventually fail. Interestingly the motor was already glued down (by Hornby?) but the retainer also holds down the intermediate gear which was jumping cogs. On this one i just glued the retainer back in position with superglue to hold the gear down.

 

Ray.

[Timbo]

 

Just inspected my only T9 - R2830 - 30285 - same issue both front and rear retainer sheared. Absolutely zinc rot as you can see the crazy paving finish in the main retainer, and the arched bit had swelled in the casing - was very hard to get out.

 

Bummer - never got to run this, as layout is in a perpetual planning/budgeting cycle!

 

Will be dropping Hornby a line on this (along with the failed front bogie for Port Line)

[Simonfj48]

My better half bought me a T9 30119 for Christmas last Year - it failed on 26th December, I despatched it back to Hornby for repair - after many vissitudes including me taking a County Court Summons out against them a replacement was provided last week. I have today finally put it together and have been running it on my rolling road for the last hour or so, it's slow running is bad at the moment, just tight - I hope but the wheels are far from parallel so I may have to take it apart although with all the problems reported here am loathe to. If this was a Motor car it would be recalled and the problems put right at the manufacturers expense. As my loco was supplied by the factory the Sale of goods Act applies to them, any thoughts anyone!

[D.Platt]

Seems to be a common fault with Hornby chassis block and motor housing, my problem was with there Royal Scot not only the motor holding block but also the chassis block itself underneath the gear ,on examination theres no meat to the block and after contacting Hornby no spares and non planned  !!! frustrating after spending hours renumbering and weathering ,guess i will have to make a comet chassis when i have the time to spare

[cobach47]

the method i use is to drill some small holes in both parts insert some pieces of stiff wire and use super glue i've repaired lots of broken chassis this way