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APT-P - lobbying and modelling


Anthony566
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Can I just go on record and say that the APT-P does look very scannable. #justsaying ;-)

 

Hopefully someone, somewhere will do one at some point. As good as the Hornby version was at the time, it hasnt aged that well.

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Yes, the P-Train has been sadly neglected since Hornby's original, and that even pre-dated the public debut of the real thing!

 

Since Paul Leadley formed the E-Train Group he and I often discussed the likelihood of anyone ever making a model E-Train and we figured there was NO chance, and in similar fashion I can't see anyone doing another P-Train, but I was wrong over the E-Train model.............  :no:  :no:

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I know off topic but while i wait for my APT-E to arrive :) and thinking ahead is there a chance that Rapido might do an APT-P ??

 

Without knowing if Rapido or anyone else is doing it, I think you should give Rapido a chance to get the APT-E out and the general public experience with it (owning it, operating it, or even just seeing it) so the UK public can get an opinion of what Rapido does before pestering them for what will be a reasonably expensive model regardless of who does it (if it gets done).

 

And for those who really, really want one, my advice would be to start putting away some money so that if someone does announce a modern model of the APT-P you will be able to afford to buy it.

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And for those who really, really want one, my advice would be to start putting away some money so that if someone does announce a modern model of the APT-P you will be able to afford to buy it.

 

Indeed, the very minimum consist would be a 5 vehicle set and that'd be totally un-realistic.

 

Considering the designed consist for the P-Trains was a 2+12, a full set would be VERY expensive! Hornby never went that far of course, and they missed making some of the vehicles anyway.

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Awesome Shane!   :O

 

Was that on your test track? If so, SERIOUS respect. What's with the 47 pushing?

 

Maybe we should spin all this P-Train stuff onto another thread somewhere though?

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Awesome Shane!   :O

 

Was that on your test track? If so, SERIOUS respect. What's with the 47 pushing?

 

Maybe we should spin all this P-Train stuff onto another thread somewhere though?

 

i was going to suggest some camera trickery is going on, (ie the footage is playing backwards when the 47 is pushing) either way it looks awesome, and illuminated too!

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If Rapido ever do the APT-P, they could do it as a 5 car unit and sell the additional power car and coaches separately allowing people to build up the rake a bit at a time or as they wish.

 

Rapido's business model is based on pre-orders, so building up over time is a no-go.

As Kit mentioned above, there are a number of vehicle types, thus pushing up the price even more.

 

Cheers,

Mick

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Awesome Shane!   :O

 

Was that on your test track? If so, SERIOUS respect. What's with the 47 pushing?

 

Maybe we should spin all this P-Train stuff onto another thread somewhere though?

Thanks Kit, the 47 is providing the motive power as the power car wasn't ready and wouldn't have enough ooomph to shift a whole set. There are several APT-P related threads but this is the one I have populated the most

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67511-improving-the-Hornby-apt

 

Cheers

 

Shane

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You never know, in future they might start selling direct to retailers like Hornby and Bachmann.

 

I would fully expect that at some point Rapido will sell a product via the normal retail outlets (perhaps the already scanned but yet announced project that Jason has teased with).

 

But that doesn't change how Rapido works.  Rapido would set an order deadline, and the retailers would have to order from Rapido what they want (both for pre-orders the retailer has taken, as well as for any stock the retailer wants on the shelf) and then Rapido would manufacture enough models to fill those retailer order and no more.

 

Rapido does not make extra stock to sit at Rapido for retailers to order later if they need extra items.

 

Now, a popular enough item might get a second run in a couple of years, but I wouldn't count on it for an item like the APT-P, which is why I suggest that anyone who really wants one should gradually set aside some money so that if someone makes it you can afford to get what you want when the opportunity comes.

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You'll find Gaugemaster is retailing Rapido products in the UK. Rapido is a small company compared to Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan and while Rapido products are sold through retailers in Canada, it is all on the pre-order system, so in the words of the TV Sale adverts, 'When they're gone, they're gone'. If you look at APT-P as being similar in size and variety to Rapido's 'Canadian' (three locos and nine cars) I suspect you would be looking at a price in excess of £1,000 by the time it reached production, and more if a retailer's margin had to be built in. At that price, no one would want any sitting around on shelves waiting for a buyer.

CHRIS LEIGH

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You'll find Gaugemaster is retailing Rapido products in the UK. Rapido is a small company compared to Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan and while Rapido products are sold through retailers in Canada, it is all on the pre-order system, so in the words of the TV Sale adverts, 'When they're gone, they're gone'. If you look at APT-P as being similar in size and variety to Rapido's 'Canadian' (three locos and nine cars) I suspect you would be looking at a price in excess of £1,000 by the time it reached production, and more if a retailer's margin had to be built in. At that price, no one would want any sitting around on shelves waiting for a buyer.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

I'd agree that at £1,000 for a full set it would be a very long shot Chris, but don't you think that the business model would be for a base set of say 5 cars, and a second add on pack of 4 or 6 trailers to bring it up to closer-to-prototype length?  If each of those was marketed at £400-500, I suspect it would be a better seller.

 

As attractive as a full sized APT set sounds, the reality is, the number of people who had a layout capable of running a train of that size would be in the low double figures.  Those who would, I'd suggest, would be also able to afford the reduced economy of having to make it up from 2-and-a-half (or other combination) smaller boxed sets.

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Now, a popular enough item might get a second run in a couple of years, but I wouldn't count on it for an item like the APT-P...

 

Hmmm, I'm inclined to disagree.  From reading many previous topics I believe that some time ago this was the very same thinking applied to the Bachmann Blue Pullman, in that considering the recent and significant price increases a second run would seem totally out of the question... yet pretty soon after such a debate Bachmann announced exactly such a re-run.  So, to my way of thinking, if a second run of Blue Pullman, (and what will amount to an expensive six car unit) is deemed viable, then to be fair on the same basis I can't see any reason as to totally rule out APT-P - after all APT-P is just as iconic (perhaps more iconic to some of us?) than said BP?

 

Either way, I'd definitely be interested in APT-P.

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The problem with second runs of anything is gauging demand. You have only to look at Hornby 2-BIL/2-HAL units as an example. Time and again manufacturers have been tempted into second runs only to have models left on the shelves once a vocal handful have been satisfied. What looks to be substantial popular demand can often be misleading. Maybe, with Rapido's pre-order system, a second run could be based on pre-orders, but whether there would be enough to justify a second run is questionable. I have doubts about the Blue Pullman. Here, I believe the 'custard-dip' yellow end version was a mistake. If they had been done in the standard original livery, I don't believe there would be any requirement for a second run. 

CHRIS LEIGH

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Hmmm, I'm inclined to disagree.  From reading many previous topics I believe that some time ago this was the very same thinking applied to the Bachmann Blue Pullman, in that considering the recent and significant price increases a second run would seem totally out of the question... yet pretty soon after such a debate Bachmann announced exactly such a re-run.  So, to my way of thinking, if a second run of Blue Pullman, (and what will amount to an expensive six car unit) is deemed viable, then to be fair on the same basis I can't see any reason as to totally rule out APT-P - after all APT-P is just as iconic (perhaps more iconic to some of us?) than said BP?

 

Just to be clear my point wasn't that there would never be a second run, but rather not to count on a second run to buy one.  

 

If you really need to have a model of the APT-P, then be prepared to get one if it is produced on the first production run as that would be the only way to guarantee getting one.

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I think this is a must for Rapido considering the interest in the APT-e.

 

Just think, this one actually ran in passenger service and shouldn't have the clearance problems.

 

With six half sets built I think there is plenty of milage for a short and a full set. If the one off experimental train can command 1600 sales then this has to be a magnitude above. More than triple that figure?

 

And yes, I'd would have one or two of these to run alongside 85s etc.

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Twelve months back who would have thought an eleven car Pendolino in N would have been remotely possible with the buyers choosing the set numbers now? A full length APT-P has more chance of seeing the light of day in N where many more home layouts can cater for the length. Having ridden it a few times during the testing period I would certainly spend on a full set. But in 00 I think its length would be enough to severely limit the market.

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