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APT-P - lobbying and modelling


Anthony566
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Twelve months back who would have thought an eleven car Pendolino in N would have been remotely possible with the buyers choosing the set numbers now? A full length APT-P has more chance of seeing the light of day in N where many more home layouts can cater for the length. Having ridden it a few times during the testing period I would certainly spend on a full set. But in 00 I think its length would be enough to severely limit the market.

 

Hi

 

I would certainly be interested in an N gauge one but sadly I don't think it would be viable.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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One possibility could be a 5 coach set to start with (one power car, 2 end coaches and 2 driving coaches), then sets of intermediate coaches so you could order up the coaches want and Rapido could put the ones that get the most votes into production.

 

I cant really see them taking that lot on though, far too much risk especially the fact that some people wouldn't order unless they were guaranteed to get a full set, others would only want the original 5 coach set so leaving the extra coaches in jeopardy.

Edited by royaloak
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Just to be clear my point wasn't that there would never be a second run, but rather not to count on a second run to buy one.  

 

If you really need to have a model of the APT-P, then be prepared to get one if it is produced on the first production run as that would be the only way to guarantee getting one.

 

As indeed was mine.  My thinking was that those who want to dip their toes, could do so for £400-500 by buying the Hornby-esque base pack, whilst those who had the space (either on their layout, or in their wallet) for a longer set, could order the base set, plus a strengthening pack of coaches.  Those dozen or so folk who wanted the full 12 cars could buy a second strengthening pack, and sell the remainders on eBay! 

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All this talk about additional packs with the extra vehicles seems to be mimicking  what Kato did with their Eurostar packs. They seem to have the main pack, which included all the different types of moulding and then an additional pack include the same style vehicle but different variations (appears the pack makes up one half set, so two would be required). 

 

Surely this would be the ideal option, as it would allow the majority of the cost to be covered by the main pack and then it allows people to tailor the sets to the length they would require, with how many additional packs.

 

It would be interesting to know how successful Kato was with doing the Eurostar this way and whether it would be a viable option.

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I'd quite like one . I'd go for a five car unit.Probably I could extend it by one or two coaches but I wouldn't have space for more than that. It doesn't need to be symmetrical both sides of power car(s). Takes me back to my College days when took the train Paisley- Glasgow. The APT-P was usually to be seen on Shields Road. Then of course I remember the disasterous 1981 runs, in one of the coldest winters for years. Still think its a shame we didn't persevere . Buying the model does depend on cost, though. My nostalgia has its limits.

 

Isn't there a danger,  that Rapido brings it out and Hornby counter with a re released version, having suddenly been able to find the tooling?  I did see an old Hornby one selling second hand recently @£150

Edited by Legend
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I'd quite like one . I'd go for a five car unit.Probably I could extend it by one or two coaches but I wouldn't have space for more than that. It doesn't need to be symmetrical both sides of power car(s). Takes me back to my College days when took the train Paisley- Glasgow. The APT-P was usually to be seen on Shields Road. Then of course I remember the disasterous 1981 runs, in one of the coldest winters for years. Still think its a shame we didn't persevere . Buying the model does depend on cost, though. My nostalgia has its limits.

 

Isn't there a danger,  that Rapido brings it out and Hornby counter with a re released version, having suddenly been able to find the tooling?  I did see an old Hornby one selling second hand recently @£150

 

Yes, that first run in 1981 was a 2 + 8 configuration, but with only 2 trailers in front of the power cars, both empty apart from the crew.

 

As for there being a 'danger' that Hornby would miraculously re-discover their own APT-P tooling, I think they'd  be on a hiding to nothing in prospective sales. As that tooling is around 35 years old it's anything but 'state of the art' and a prospective Rapido P-Train model would be head and shoulders above it in the quality stakes.

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Yes, that first run in 1981 was a 2 + 8 configuration, but with only 2 trailers in front of the power cars, both empty apart from the crew.

 

As for there being a 'danger' that Hornby would miraculously re-discover their own APT-P tooling, I think they'd  be on a hiding to nothing in prospective sales. As that tooling is around 35 years old it's anything but 'state of the art' and a prospective Rapido P-Train model would be head and shoulders above it in the quality stakes.

 

I was racking my brains for a minute there, trying to remember when Hornby ever released a 10 car train pack... The I realised you meant "run" literally!

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Hornby was planning on a re-release of the APT-P in 2012 (The original old tooling) but the bosses at Margate decided that due to health and safety reasons in moving the tooling from Margate to China it wouldn't be done.

But then again who would want a model with tooling around 35 years old ?.

Like I said in my post the other week if it was done with new tooling as a 5 car pack, with the additional power car and intermediate coaches done separately it would give people the chance to buy it in whatever configuration they want or can afford at the time.

Remember the basic APT-E Rapido 4 car dcc ready is £225 and £49 per additional intermediate coach.

 

The APT-P could be done in loads of minor livery variations on its front end, If Hornby did a newly tooled APT-P that was as well done as its mk3 DVT I know people would buy it as a 5 car set then buy the additional coaches if they wanted the extended rake.

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I wont be supporting the release of an all new APT-P for a number of years for reasons some of you will be aware of. I've invested too much time and money to have that opportunity taken from me when I am so close to making my work available, albeit in limited quantities.

 

cheers

 

Shane

Edited by Wolf27
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I would prefer Rapido to do it as they would scan the real one at Crewe.

I think Rapido would get the livery paint shades correct, and remember the APT-P intermediate coaches are all the same externally (I am  referring to the ones Hornby never did) except for the buffet coach that had 2 windows less on one side of the coach and the underframe grilles on the coaches are different on the intermediate coaches and the interiors.

So it could be done with one intermediate coach tooling with blanks to get rid of the 2 windows on one side of the buffet coach and the variations of the underframe grilles.

And then just tool up the interiors for the intermediate coaches, they would probably just do it like the Realtrack class 143/144 with the individual plastic seats and bulkhead glued into a metal or plastic floor.

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Shane, don't forget if Rapido or Hornby ect announce a new APT-P the model wouldn't be ready for sale for at least a year or two if not more.

You would have a good lead time before them to sell your version.

I was having a modern EMU kit designed for me only to be told months later that one of the RTR manufacturers were evaluating the real thing and they kindly informed the kit designer to put it on hold.

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I think they ran as short as 7 car sets when on trials / unadvertised additional services.  I travelled on APT-P 4 times (once Euston to Glasgow and 3 times Euston to Preston), and would love to own a model of one.  However, with no wires on the Western region in the 1970's (the period and location of my planned layout), I think it would be difficult to justify.  The APT-E I was able to justify having found a photo of it at Swindon station alongside a Western and a photo of it passing through Steventon near Didcot and I am looking forward to receiving it.

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I really think the correct mix 5 car set is the best idea then let people order the extra coaches that they want as with the current E deal.

Perhaps slightly better would be to offer the six car set as preserved as one of the options; Okay that's 4 rather than 3 vehicles to tool up, but it is what would have to be scanned in any case and the other intermediate carriages would have to be developed from the CAD of the buffet in any case on that basis. That and of course the 5 car set that was at the Old Oak Common open day in the 80's...

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All this talk about additional packs with the extra vehicles seems to be mimicking  what Kato did with their Eurostar packs. They seem to have the main pack, which included all the different types of moulding and then an additional pack include the same style vehicle but different variations (appears the pack makes up one half set, so two would be required). 

 

Surely this would be the ideal option, as it would allow the majority of the cost to be covered by the main pack and then it allows people to tailor the sets to the length they would require, with how many additional packs.

 

It would be interesting to know how successful Kato was with doing the Eurostar this way and whether it would be a viable option.

 

Kato have also done this with some of their North American named train sets in N scale. The PRR Broadway Limited was sold as a 10-car set, with a 4-car add-on set (which included one new car type) and a single run-through sleeper (an already-produced ATSF prototype). The latest release of the ATSF Super Chief was sold as an 8-car set and a 4-car add on, although it was originally sold as three 4-car sets. The SP Morning Daylight was sold as a 10-car set with four add-on articulated car pairs. The locos are sold separately.

 

Adrian

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The Kato Eurostar was a pain in the neck as getting the intermediate coaches is nigh on impossible.  Given you need multiple intermediate packs per set there just were not enough produced.

 

If you are interested in modelling the APT-P pop along to DEMU's Showcase on Saturday - Shane will be demo'ing his APT-P (hopefully with a special guest appearance from the Rapido APT-E!).

 

Cheers, Mike

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A Kickstarter project worked indirectly for Revolution Train's Pendolino. Why not wait for the APT-E reviews and start a funding campaign for the APT-P?

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B

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  • 2 weeks later...

Imagine a 14 coach APT-P with full sound ie a speaker in each vehicle. To give noise of -

 

tilt and brake pumps in all coaches

air conditioning stage two cooling in all passenger ones

horns and DA set (in case of towing etc) in the DTS

compressor and MA set in TBF

everything noisy in the power cars including fans blowers motors pumps etc

 

Most of this could be recorded at Crewe with the exception of the traction motors and MA set

 

Sounds good to me! Come on Jason I know you want to produce the finest model possible!

 

Rob

www.apt-p.com

Edited by aptp
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