Bachmann Delays...will products ever arrive?

[iankemp]

Don't forget it takes 2 -3 weeks to be shipped over and they have to wait for a shipping date that takes well over 6 months! So you will be waiting forever! It is just the same with Hornby! If they made them in the UK it would not be so long to release them to the shops!

[Gwiwer]

Don't forget it takes 2 -3 weeks to be shipped over and they have to wait for a shipping date that takes well over 6 months! So you will be waiting forever! It is just the same with Hornby! If they made them in the UK it would not be so long to release them to the shops!

 

That isn't necessarily true.  While you remove the wait for a shipping slot you still have all the other R&D time plus what is almost inevitably going to be road distribution time.  It may be a little quicker but for that we would be paying British labour rates as discussed above and probably unable to afford half so many pieces of rolling stock into the equation.

[DropTheTap]

...for that we would be paying British labour rates as discussed above and probably unable to afford half so many pieces of rolling stock into the equation.

 

After their last price hike, that's about where I'm at.

[iankemp]

When i messaged Bachmann about the GCR building that goes for silly amounts of money on eBay, i asked them when they would be receiving their 2nd batch of the building, they explained that they had to wait for a shipping slot. That came from the horses mouth itself, i am just repeating what i was told by the manufacturer. They also told me that they had to cover the shipping costs to get it from China to the UK as well as the wages and the materials. SO if they were to be made in the UK shipping costs would be not included so by my calculations the price would be either just a bit less or roughly the same as they charge now. There would be more chance of them being released in the time frame that they say they will be!

[Les1952]

Hmm- many people have commented, and not just on this forum or even about model railways, that the shipping costs for a container from a port in China to a port in the UK are LESS than the cost of getting the same container from the quayside to a town ten miles away.....

 

DJMODELS have now proved that a container can be tracked from China to Southampton (where it seems to get lost). 

 

Bachmann are a Chinese firm.  No chance whatever of UK manufacture.

 

Les

[iankemp]

Nope Bachmann are a british firm based in Leicestershire. They employ Chinese workers. They are doing the same as Hornby! Cheap labour and ship it over here to the UK!

[Ozexpatriate]

Nope Bachmann are a british firm based in Leicestershire. They employ Chinese workers. They are doing the same as Hornby! Cheap labour and ship it over here to the UK!

Bachmann Europe PLC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Kader Holdings Inc - a Chinese company based in Hong Kong. The Chinese executive management at Kader Holdings actually employs both the good people of Bachmann Europe PLC and the Chinese workers.

 

Recently Mr. Ting, the Chairman of Kader Holdings Inc, paid a visit to his team in Barwell. I believe photographs were shared in, (I think) the Collectors' Club magazine here on RMweb at their announcement of the narrow gauge models last year.

 

Bachmann actually started out as an American company that was later acquired by Kader Holdings Inc.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[Les1952]

Bachmann Industries is a Bermuda-registered Chinese-owned company with headquarters in Hong-Kong, having been bought from American owners based in Philadelphia in 1984.  It is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kader Industrial Company Limited, founded 1948 in Hong-Kong. 

 

Bachmann Europe is a subsidiary, based in the UK but still Chinese-owned. 

 

Headquarters decides what is made where- Barwell has little or no control over that.

 

Les

[Ian Hargrave]

Nope Bachmann are a british firm based in Leicestershire. They employ Chinese workers. They are doing the same as Hornby! Cheap labour and ship it over here to the UK!

Wherever did you get that idea ?

[The Stationmaster]

Nope Bachmann are a british firm based in Leicestershire. They employ Chinese workers. They are doing the same as Hornby! Cheap labour and ship it over here to the UK!

Alas wrong, very wrong.  Bachmann Europe, who are indeed based in Leicestershire, are the wholly owned (almost) subsidiary of a Chinese company called Kader who - among other activities - are the largest manufacturer of model railway items in China.

 

So Bachmann are not really doing the same as Hornby - in fact it's more or less the other way round where a Chinese company is selling into the UK market via a UK subsidiary company which it owns and which employs British people to do the research and development and marketing for British outline models (among others).

[andyram]

At the end of the day Whether Bachmann manufacture in this country of overseas their problems really stem from the long time between appearance in the catalogue and expected release. I have always found it strange that a company announces an intended release in a catalogue, but does not expect it to be released within the 12 month life of that catalogue.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Maybe the annual announcement and catalogue should be replaced with a rolling 5 year plan, with an update to the 5 year plan announced each year.

The catalogue would then cease to be an annual catalogue of what they intend to have available within the next 12 - 18 months and would represent their future plans between publication date and up to 5 years from that point.

 

You could say that's what it has now become.

[andyram]

I feel that the catalogue should only include intended releases for the upcoming 12 months. It may mean the catalogue becomes smaller, a cheaper!!!

[woodenhead]

I don't even know what the role of a catalogue is anymore.

 

If you look at Argos, the catalogue is a book full of items they currently sell, when they run out they get restocked. In model railways, a catalogue seems to be a series of promises of something that may appear some time in the future and will be likely a single run or possibly have a second run and then be no more.

 

At least web pages can show current, past but still in stock, past and out of stock and future release which are much clearer than a one of catalogue.

[GordonC]

But if they want to gather pre-orders and potentially use them to judge interest in models, then how would that be communicated to customers that perhaps dont read RMWeb or internet forums.

 

We have seen cases (perhaps more with Hornby) where announced items have later been postponed or even cancelled with the reason being given as being due to low orders (from retailers).

 

When Bachmann announces its new catalogue it is normally termed as being for the next 18 months rather than 12 (although in some cases items have been getting delayed way past that

[Dunsignalling]

There are two serious problems with catalogues these days.

 

1. Items shown/described that won't actually appear during the currency of it.

 

2. Items shown/described that have already been and gone during the currency of the previous edition.

 

The former is sometimes the result of difficulty in scheduling production in China but is increasingly clear that Bachmann have announced several models that haven't actually progressed much further than the announcement itself and which they must be fully aware won't even appear in the catalogue year following the current one. Hornby have been over-optimistic in the past but it appears to be that most items announced for 2015 will be released during the catalogue year even if they miss the planned quarter.

 

These factors, coupled with most illustrations in the Hornby catalogue being computer-generated have made both catalogues meaningless for me. I therefore haven't bought either for the past three years and don't anticipate doing so again. The way both main producers are operating these days is just incompatible with an annual printed catalogue. 

 

John

Edited May 25, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[40F]

There are two serious problems with catalogues these days.

 

1. Items shown/described that won't actually appear during the currency of it.

 

2. Items shown/described that have already been and gone during the currency of the previous edition.

 

The former is sometimes the result of difficulty in scheduling production in China but is increasingly clear that Bachmann have announced several models that haven't actually progressed much further than the announcement itself and which they must be fully aware won't even appear in the catalogue year following the current one. Hornby have been over-optimistic in the past but it appears to be that most items announced for 2015 will be released during the catalogue year even if they miss the planned quarter.

 

These factors, coupled with most illustrations in the Hornby catalogue being computer-generated have made both catalogues meaningless for me. I therefore haven't bought either for the past three years and don't anticipate doing so again. The way both main producers are operating these days is just incompatible with an annual printed catalogue. 

 

John

 

Catalogues  are showing what is intended to be produced it does not always mean that they will produced in the year they are announced. Sometimes an item is announced to gauge interest and if there is none it is dropped. Roco are past masters at this. It is time people chilled out realised this 

[woodenhead]

Catalogues are a product in their own right

 

Who didn't lust over the Hornby one as a child?

But in those days you could say "I want that one" and your dad could pop down the local model shop and buy the model. The picture would be an actual picture of the model and it would be available.

 

Take the Farish images, anything being scaled down from OO gets the OO image in the catalogue, taking the current issues with fuel tanks on the 47/7, the OO images do not represent a true image of what we are getting in N.

[GordonC]

But in those days you could say "I want that one" and your dad could pop down the local model shop and buy the model. The picture would be an actual picture of the model and it would be available.

 

Take the Farish images, anything being scaled down from OO gets the OO image in the catalogue, taking the current issues with fuel tanks on the 47/7, the OO images do not represent a true image of what we are getting in N.

 

the issues with fuel tanks on the Farish 47/7s ... is that the missing white brake pipes on one side?? Is that not one of the easier 'errors' to correct i.e. stick an extra part on rather than a wrong shape or detail

 

I dont model in N, but would it really be a dealbreaker for that to be missing?

 

Even if it was missing in 00 I'd still buy them as its easy to correct and I'm just happy to have 47/7s released in Scotrail livery to begin with!

[Dunsignalling]

Catalogues  are showing what is intended to be produced it does not always mean that they will produced in the year they are announced. Sometimes an item is announced to gauge interest and if there is none it is dropped. Roco are past masters at this. It is time people chilled out realised this 

But Bachmann have always said their catalogues cover the 18 months following publication, which they clearly don't any more.

 

it's becoming pretty obvious that long announced items like the Stanier Mogul, Brighton Atlantic and re-chassised Ivatt tank won't arrive by the time the 2016-17 catalogue is issued and it appears doubtful we'll see all of them before the 2017-18 edition comes out.

 

Announcing yet more when the biggest difference between the current catalogue and the last is the date on the front amounts to taking the p*** IMHO. 

 

John

Edited May 25, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[woodenhead]

the issues with fuel tanks on the Farish 47/7s ... is that the missing white brake pipes on one side?? Is that not one of the easier 'errors' to correct i.e. stick an extra part on rather than a wrong shape or detail

 

I dont model in N, but would it really be a dealbreaker for that to be missing?

 

Even if it was missing in 00 I'd still buy them as its easy to correct and I'm just happy to have 47/7s released in Scotrail livery to begin with!

The point I was making was that the image does not match the model. I'm personally not that bothered by the missing pipes but there are others who feel they should be there for the price being paid. I accept that prototype shots will not match the model but when you put in an image of a model in the catalogue or online then you expect your model to match that. Using images of OO models in an N catalogue could misrepresent what you will actually receive.

[Dunsignalling]

Catalogues are a product in their own right

 

Who didn't lust over the Hornby one as a child?

Nowadays, it would seem to be a good plan to order Junior's first train as soon as he's potty trained.............

[Butler Henderson]

Use of models from other scales has been commonly used in European catalogues for ages, as for having the actual model in the catalogue it obviously has to exist in the first place. What has been used in the past in OO has been kit built models from Wills etc, in N the problem never use to exist as Farish (pre Bachmann) neve use to pre announce models.

[Ozexpatriate]

I have always found it strange that a company announces an intended release in a catalogue, but does not expect it to be released within the 12 month life of that catalogue.

There are two serious problems with catalogues these days.

 

1. Items shown/described that won't actually appear during the currency of it.

 

2. Items shown/described that have already been and gone during the currency of the previous edition.

The catalogue isn't an order sheet. I'll go out on a limb and state without hesitation (or material data*) that every printed catalogue of British outline model railways from every manufacturer in the last five years contained items that did not appear within the period when the catalogue was current.

 

* which no doubt will get me into trouble.

 

I remember the Hornby catalogue that introduced the new tooling for the Schools class. This turned out to be a lovely model but for two consecutive years there were nothing but black and white illustrations of Schools class locomotives in different liveries, configurations, names and running numbers from those actually produced.  (And while we're at it, where's that GWR railcar from Dapol?)

 

It is an expensive form of advertising products the company intends to produce. They are useful for people who don't check the internet every day. For some they are collectible. The catalogues are usually quite nicely presented but the main reason they are produced is that they are traditional and by and large, people who build model railways like tradition.

 

Even if they have little real utility these days, were they to be discontinued, many people would object.

[Dunsignalling]

The catalogue isn't an order sheet. I'll go out on a limb and state without hesitation (or material data*) that every printed catalogue of British outline model railways from every manufacturer in the last five years contained items that did not appear within the period when the catalogue was current.

 

* which no doubt will get me into trouble.

 

I remember the Hornby catalogue that introduced the new tooling for the Schools class. This turned out to be a lovely model but for two consecutive years there were nothing but black and white illustrations of Schools class locomotives in different liveries, configurations, names and running numbers from those actually produced.  (And while we're at it, where's that GWR railcar from Dapol?)

 

It is an expensive form of advertising products the company intends to produce. They are useful for people who don't check the internet every day. For some they are collectible. The catalogues are usually quite nicely presented but the main reason they are produced is that they are traditional and by and large, people who build model railways like tradition.

 

Even if they have little real utility these days, were they to be discontinued, many people would object.

My comments weren't solely a criticism of Bachmann. It's a general industry problem affecting pretty much every player (and not just in this country).

 

I don't have an intrinsic objection to items appearing in several catalogues before they eventually appear.  It's not even a new phenomenon; you have cited the Hornby Schools and IIRC Bachmann's original Ivatt 2MT tank appeared in at least two catalogue editions before the one in which it bore any relevance.

 

What does bother me about Bachmann's announcements is their standard claim that the new models are scheduled for release in the succeeding 18 months when they must know by now that, short of more than one miracle, that just isn't going to happen with most of them.

 

The whole point of a catalogue is that it should be pretty enough to stimulate interest from would be purchasers but stimulating interest in non-existent models only causes frustration and, if repeated often enough, outright cynicism.

 

Older catalogues are useful to collectors as records of what was produced and (with a reasonable degree of accuracy) when. The levels of sheer wishful thinking currently to be found within them will render them useless even for that.

 

I did not denigrate those who like to collect catalogues for their own sake (how often or whether they check out the internet too is neither here nor there but a couple of times a year would out-perform modern catalogues). Neither did I claim that nobody would miss catalogues if they ceased to be produced or indeed that I thought they should (just for the record, I don't).

 

However, my assertion of their present uselessness to me as sources of information is irrefutable. If I want to read fiction, I buy novels and, if I want to look at page after page of computer generated or manipulated images, the "arty" ends of the computer/photographic press do it so much better than Hornby.

 

John

Edited May 26, 2015 by Dunsignalling