Rusty.J Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Looks fab! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) -- Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP Deleted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thanks for the comments guys. BigP, it is indeed, I am quite impressed with it, the detail seems to be better than the Shapeways FUD but, i.materialises quality control doesn't seem to be as good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) -- Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP Deleted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Comparing these imaterialise efforts against one of your lovely shapeways printed Turbos, my conclusion would be that the prime gray is finer, it definitely will require less surface finishing (a normal coat of primer should do the trick on all bar the roof) and importantly, it isn't covered in excessive amounts of release agent. It appears to me that the material is definitely finer and the flat areas of the 380 roof are both smooth and shiny. I would temper this by noting that because prime grey is, well, grey, it is significantly easier to see the details. Overall from my experiences, I would say that shapeways have the best website, customer service, speed, ordering system* and quality control but i.materialise is cheaper and prime grey wins out for me. Conclusion, 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of another, I'd probably go for i.materialise overall but it is by a whisker and I am sure I will use shapeways as well. *also to note, my models were done in imperial measurements which threw the imaterialise site into a massive hissy fit, so I had to upload in metric and then scale up the models but, and most annoyingly, it then "forgets" the rescaling so I would have to do that every single time I ordered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted October 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hi Morris, Wow - they look very good indeed. You have certainly captured the shape of the 380 - I saw a few last week while in Glasgow. Hopefully it won't be that long until they introduce a clear printing medium that gives a decent level of resolution, at which point the arguments about solid bodyshells may become academic...! cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha230 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 They look great, but I think you should get rid of them solid windows, if you look at how good PH Designs 2mm class 323 looks ,and considering BigP is changing his windows on his networkers, I really think most people would prefer not to have the solid windows. You should do a class 334, that would go great with your class 380. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) Next model (class 378) will be windowless and I will at some stage "de-window" the electrostar. If there is sufficient demand, the same can be done for the 380 BUT, so far there has been very little interest in the 380 (which was undertaken because I really wanted one not becaus I thought it'd make me into the next Lord Sugar ). 334 is "on the list" so to speak but there's a few much bigger "low hanging fruit" to be picked off first and realistically, the 334 is still an "if" and if it was to become a "when" it'd be the other side of Chirstmas 2016. Edited October 17, 2015 by m0rris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hello again, The 2mm class 334 looks excellent and could be tempted with a small N gauge layout here just to have an excuse to have one, also a 334 yes please, if you do decide to do this, again would you be willing to scale it up to 4mm. Benjamin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 The 2mm class 334 looks excellent and could be tempted with a small N gauge layout here just to have an excuse to have one, also a 334 yes please, if you do decide to do this, again would you be willing to scale it up to 4mm. Hi Benjamin. sorry for taking a while to reply. In short, the models are being done in a way at the moment (that is the class 378 project onwards) that allows them to be easily rescaled to 00 and N gauge. I've got at least 3 projects I want to get sorted first before I can move onto a 334. There are a couple of points I would like to make about 00 gauge 334s... 1) To print the bodyshells alone will be very expensive, at least £60 per shell 2) My railway career has taken a turn and I am now down at GWR, which means I can no longer easily photo them which compounds the problem of not being able to find any drawings for 334s at the moment. None of these are insurmountable issues and I would like to get a 334 done in due course. but if there's one thing I've learnt on the railways so far, never make a promise until you ae absolutely sure that you can deliver. They are on the list but that doesn't mean much... yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marbelup Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Comparing these imaterialise efforts against one of your lovely shapeways printed Turbos, my conclusion would be that the prime gray is finer, it definitely will require less surface finishing (a normal coat of primer should do the trick on all bar the roof) and importantly, it isn't covered in excessive amounts of release agent. It appears to me that the material is definitely finer and the flat areas of the 380 roof are both smooth and shiny. I would temper this by noting that because prime grey is, well, grey, it is significantly easier to see the details. Overall from my experiences, I would say that shapeways have the best website, customer service, speed, ordering system* and quality control but i.materialise is cheaper and prime grey wins out for me. Conclusion, 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of another, I'd probably go for i.materialise overall but it is by a whisker and I am sure I will use shapeways as well. *also to note, my models were done in imperial measurements which threw the imaterialise site into a massive hissy fit, so I had to upload in metric and then scale up the models but, and most annoyingly, it then "forgets" the rescaling so I would have to do that every single time I ordered. Re the scaling issue, you could use NetFabb (free version) to rescale the STL file before uploading, to avoid the need to rescale for subsequent orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Projects are still a bit upside down and not quite where I'd like them to be which means that this has slipped the net until now... The modern bus project has reached the test print stage, pictures below of the 3D model. It is worth noting that this model is based on the buses I catch to the station every day and as such is likely to have detail differences to other buses across the UK from the same manufacturer. All in I am pretty happy with it so far, but I am awaiting test prints so better not speak too soon. In other news, the class 380 test prints finally have primer on them so I can test paint and trial steve's wonderful transfers. Edited November 18, 2015 by m0rris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted November 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2015 Hi Morris, That bus is nice. In London they have similar ones but I think half a bay shorter and with another pair of doors between the axles, to allow passengers to alight more easily. What is the wheelbase? I wonder if it's suitable for motorising with a Tomytec chassis.... cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Hi Ben, My computer is throwing a stop so I can't get any cad programmes open to allow a proper measurement. I have attached a picture which should be useful though from the design phase, I'd hazard a guess at the 3.5-4cm range for the wheelbase. Out of nterest what is the wheelbase for the Tomytec chassis? You are right about London buses, they generally have two doors and are 10.2m long vs 10.9m for the single doored "country" versions - due to the weird way the bus world works many london buses see out their careers outside of the capital with the middle door removed and become neffect 10.2m versions of the countrybuses. Seeing as Oxford are churning out a Boris bus and I wanted to model my local buses I decided to stick with the country version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted November 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Morris, There are three chassis - BM-01 with wheelbase 32mm, BM-02 (wb 35mm) and BM-03 (adjustable wb 38-44mm) and if you google them you'll find downloadable drawings which you may be able to import into your CAD program to see which, if any, might fit. I suspect the problem may be less the wheelbase (as the wheelarches could probably be moved very slightly) but the rear overhang. Having said that, Paul (onlyme) in our NGS area group has turned Tomytec chassis into lorries and other vehicles by cutting, shutting and altering so that may be adjustable too. We'd certainly like a double decker on Horseley Fields if it proves feasible and yes - country version for us too! cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) I'll need to check my sums again, but the wheelbase works out at 38.5mm. My initial maths from the tomytec drawings says that it should fit unmodified, but I am going to do my sums again as I don't entirely trust them and my gut feeling when looking at that overhang over the rear arches is that it is not going to fit. If my gut feeling is right, it would still be possible to modify the model to make it tomytec friendly, but it would involve some tricky compromises on overall length and wheelarch positioning. (...I'd be very happy to see some of my products unleashed on a layout as good as Horseley Fields!) Now I have listed my bus on shapeways (I will also get a bulk batch done on i.materialise) I shall be returning to rail for my next couple of projects but, I might be tempted to do a single decker and another different double decker in due course. Edited November 19, 2015 by m0rris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi, Any news on the 'OO' Gauge Electrostars? Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Hi Simon, It is a case of one step forwards two steps back. The step forward is that I have a rescaled 378 test body ready to print and can get one printed and delivered through i.materialise for £80... The more I order the more the price comes down but, it isn't in my preferred material, imaterialise takes a long time to print, due to a minor glitch I have to rescale my models every single time I order through imaterialise and shapeways now wont print 00 gauge models (...not ideal). That's the steps backwards and forwards, what next? Well I am now revving up to find a resin caster willing to take on the work. All my resin casters are slot casters who do slush moulding (different kettle of fish to what is needed here), but if I can pull this off I should be able to get kits together for significantly less. The late model electrostar suitable for 379/387 etc, is undergoing modification to make it printable for 00 gauge, I will offer that as soon as it is done but it will be expensive. Sorry that it isnt all positive news but there is some hope on the horizon! Thanks Charlie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium James Makin Posted November 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2015 An interesting progress update on the Electrostars Charlie! When building & casting my 'OO' Electrostars, the main challenge I found was resin casting the sides/body parts - it was a challenge to get it to be thin and prototypical, yet remain straight! Small items like my resin cab fronts worked well but anything bigger and you had a giant plasticky banana!! Very best of luck and looking forward to seeing how you get on! Cheers, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted November 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2015 Hi Charlie, The NGS has always used CMA Moldform in Nechells, Birmingham. They are very good and used to casting some quite large components - their main business is based around the motor vehicle/moptorsports industries and they produce lots of one-off and concept castings. We usually use a basic biscuit resin, which is good enough for N, but in OO you may require something more rigid however they'll be able to advise you. See http://www.cmamoldformltd.co.uk They're not cheap but as ever the price comes down the more you have. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi Simon, It is a case of one step forwards two steps back. The step forward is that I have a rescaled 378 test body ready to print and can get one printed and delivered through i.materialise for £80... The more I order the more the price comes down but, it isn't in my preferred material, imaterialise takes a long time to print, due to a minor glitch I have to rescale my models every single time I order through imaterialise and shapeways now wont print 00 gauge models (...not ideal). That's the steps backwards and forwards, what next? Well I am now revving up to find a resin caster willing to take on the work. All my resin casters are slot casters who do slush moulding (different kettle of fish to what is needed here), but if I can pull this off I should be able to get kits together for significantly less. The late model electrostar suitable for 379/387 etc, is undergoing modification to make it printable for 00 gauge, I will offer that as soon as it is done but it will be expensive. Sorry that it isnt all positive news but there is some hope on the horizon! Thanks Charlie An interesting progress update on the Electrostars Charlie! When building & casting my 'OO' Electrostars, the main challenge I found was resin casting the sides/body parts - it was a challenge to get it to be thin and prototypical, yet remain straight! Small items like my resin cab fronts worked well but anything bigger and you had a giant plasticky banana!! Very best of luck and looking forward to seeing how you get on! Cheers, James Hi I don't mind the 'bad news', I'm very excited about there potentially being a kit for an Electrostar on the market, my model of West Croydon needs a model of 378 and a 377 (or more ). I suppose that the problem with Shapeways not accepting the 'OO' version is the size? Could you 'cut' the body up to sections so that it would print and then let the modeller glue the sections together? I know this might not be the best solution, it might get around the potential warping problems James has encountered? However, I would prefer a resin kit or the grey material of i.materialise, as the Shapeways WSF might be a little too grainy for a large model. I think that if you cast it like an upturned boat hull, so the sides and roof are cast as one, you probably won't get the warping of the sides as James got, as the roof will give it some strength. Regards, Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted November 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi Charlie, Warping is as much down to the properties of the resin as the component thickness and strength. Resin shrinks as it cures; if you're mastering you have to take account of it and sometimes make items as much as 4% larger than you actually want them to be. The problem is that different thicknesses will cure more slowly and shrink at different rates and this can lead to distortion. Usually, the best solution is to add sacrificial cross bracing or to design the part with a draught to mitigate against the effects, but there can be some trial and error involved. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Hi Simon ad Ben, I have fixed the error with the 00 shells, it was primarily a user error. As an example of another wth resin, this big beast is a 1/32 model of the Italan Job coach that is currently nearing completion, it will be slush moulded because I couldn't find anyone able to do a multipart mould for it! If people are interested in what slush moulded products can achieve I am happy to post pictures but it's most likely a subject for another thread, needless to say casting 5 sides of the cube really does help wth warping. Part of my logic behind moving towards a resin based solution was that the models are going to have to be printed in WSF/equivalent, which involves alot of surface prep, the amount of surface prep needed is going to put plenty of people off so replicating a pre-prepared shell makes alot of sense (unfortunately, prime grey cannot do 00 shells, there'd be big problems with areas such as the roof/chassis which couldn't be printed as one piece). I guess, Ben, the joy of 3D printing is that at least if I do need to upscale the model a few %, it is "just" a couple of clicks! I am awaiting a reply from Ben's reccomended casters, at the moment it is going to be wait and see what is possible. Like everybody, I've naturally got time and money restraints, and consequently I have to see what I can get done. I can promise that most if not all of the shells will be offered for sale scaled up for 00 gauge prints, these might not be financially viable for the next wee while until printing costs have fallen further but they will be available. My short term plan is to get all of these ideas assessed and quoted. Medium term, I have a list of projects I'd like to get done and I will continue to work with my modeller to get through this list (probably another 5ish projects left in me before CAD fatigue sets in) and I am acutely aware that I have alot of parts but they arent available in saleable or attractive kits, so I will be working to sort that out. Long term plan... I haven't really got one at the mo! It is worth pointing out though that between me, BigP and Bob at NTrain, we have started/finished most of the Networker family, nearly half of the electrostar family, PEP and Mk3 based EMUs, and a few more. As an N gauge modeller, I am not interested in unneccessary duplcation (it makes an expensive side show even more so) and slowly the pool of potential projects is shrinking. I know what I would like to get done and I'm going to see that through all th way, afterwards, please refer to long term plan! Edited November 24, 2015 by m0rris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) SItuation report: 378/Electrostars/380s, all have been printed and a few issues have been identified with the buildabilty of the models which I am working on resolving. In particular, there is an issue with the design of the bogies which is proving to be a bit pain to resolve and might require a total redesign, I'll most likely have to make a plea to the gallery for tips. Overall though, the bodyshells are great and a new, windowless (an cheaper) Electrostar will emerge shortly. 00 Gauge models. After a wait of a couple of weeks, the casters have come back to me stating that they can undertake the work but I am awaiting further prices before I can say whether it is a goer, its looking hopeful at the moment but I am not going to make any promises. Future projects. After the issues on the first projects I have decided to keep my projects under wraps until I am confident that they are near completion. My next project has a decidely Western theme and is well advanced, I hope to be able to tease the first photos in a weeks time. It is much sought after and 00 gaugers will be asking for it as it currently sits in the sweetspot for us hobbytraders of being near the top of many wishlists but just one step too far for the manufacturers - Due to the length of the rakes it will only be viable if the casters can deliver the goods. After some mixed news, here's something positive to celebrate. My modern bus project is completed, test prints have arrived from shapeways and they are looking pretty damn good to my eyes (although close photography on N gauge items doesn't do my painting any favours). 10 points to Gryffindor if you can guess my local bus company.... https://www.shapeways.com/product/VEJX7YSAF/1-148-modern-british-bus?li=search-results-1&optionId=58410637 I've offered it in WSF and FUD. This here is printed in FUD and it has done a really good job with the details, so that would definitely be my reccomendation. Edited December 22, 2015 by m0rris 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 . 10 points to Gryffindor if you can guess my local bus company.... https://www.shapeways.com/product/VEJX7YSAF/1-148-modern-british-bus?li=search-results-1&optionId=58410637 I've offered it in WSF and FUD. This here is printed in FUD and it has done a really good job with the details, so that would definitely be my reccomendation. Looks a lot like the National Express West Midlands buses I see on Route 9 on the Hagley Road in Birmingham. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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