Jump to content
 

A Pennsylvanian Shortline


bertiedog

Recommended Posts

I really think a vote of thanks be proffered to Stephen for subtly leading us all in new directions......it really is amazing how, through discussion and question, a thread can lead in all sorts of directions?

 

Having dug out my ex-MDC boxcab.....a kit from the 1980's that once took nearly 3/4 of an hour to grind around the NMRA's first Fleetwood convention, HO modular layout....

 

I find it has end doors!...with one end window, 'barred'....

 

The roof lacks the cooling radiator details, or exhausts....probably because it is converted to a box mootr, and has a pan...

 

Regarding the end steps/pilots.....the MDC/Roundhouse GE/IR boxcab came with separately-fitted plastic pilots...which sort-of clipped [?] onto the thin shelves on the chassis casting ends.

 

I think these step pilots were available separately, and were used possibly on other MDC [steam] locos as well.

 

MDC Shay pilot steps were similar...although not quite as 'deep'...and had a continuous step across the width...

 

I do not know whether these plastic MDC parts are available from any source any more.......???? Possibly???

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The Ebay seller has other brass locos for sale at present, but all are "broken gears" or "missing axles",or "motors", lots of hard work to replace with the right types. Looks like they all came from the same source.

 

Stephen.

 

I am looking at those other brass locos, for me they are a great place to start, I don't care for the missing axles or motors, seeing I would replace them all with NWSL powered trucks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

post-6750-126754379325_thumb.jpg

 

Pretty darn good fit!........ No trouble to do new floor support, but it is the one with end "firemans" doors so will really need the end platform and pilots. The bogie sideframes are usable with beams added etc.

 

The older Roundhouse material is owned by Athearn these days, I think, they are re-introducing some items, but the Boxcab and Shay both needed completely new chassis, and the items left.

 

Yes, NWSL would do suitable parts for the missing bits on Ebay, but the price is high over here, and availability somewhat poor. The Red Ball all FBM units look nice, with missing axle and all gears sheared, typical if heavily used, but can also happen in storage.

 

The lowboy chassis from Hollywood Foundry would fit the Boxcab, but has a sideways drive so would need a modern motor as well, although four axle drive would be feasible as well, with dual universals.

 

There is no haulage problem with the Ernie chassis, it has a traction tyre, and all wheel pick up, even from the tyred wheel. First test showed it would shift about 12 boxcars easily.

 

Stephen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stephen - if that is the one that went south - it looks good - Have you any idea about the minimum radius for the chassis. My Harlem Station/149th Street yard is going to be about 13.5" for the big curve - two UE chassis heading north hopefully tomorrow

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stephen - if that is the one that went south - it looks good - Have you any idea about the minimum radius for the chassis. My Harlem Station/149th Street yard is going to be about 13.5" for the big curve - two UE chassis heading north hopefully tomorrow

 

13.5 inches would be tight for the Ernie Bo-Bo, I think about 15 inch would be a practical minimum, which is a bit of a surprise for a toy based chassis.

 

It sits on Hornby Dublo min radius, but I can't run it as it's three rail! The restriction is the worm drive, it does not move so relies on gear play to function. The short tiny drive shaft is a coupler rather than flexible joint. The side frames foul at about 13 inches, just...

 

post-6750-126754619737_thumb.jpg

 

That's the right IR type, with the central fireman's door, but no end platforms, so I will have to scratchbuild the draft gear, pilots, etc. Apparently the roof exhausts are all wrong on the Roundhouse, but there must be better details on the extensive Boxcab pages on the net. The radiators are correct to real thing., but would look nice in brass!

 

Stephen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an early brass Boxcab,50's/60's, only one axle drive, very, very poor haulage power, it would need spur gears coupling the axles added .......

 

They do actually have spur gears coupling the axles on one truck - I have a couple of Baldwin steeple cabs of the same vintage. But neither do anything clever like work...... they are in my " to do " file.

 

Problem with all these early brass diesels is the detail on them is not that wonderful anyway, very flat usually, I think the Tenshodo at least are just stamped brass. The need a lot of work and money spending on then to make them work OK and most have a brass floor which prevents easy chassis replacement with a commercial unit. I have a Pensey FA1 that I've been trying to mate with a P2k FA chassis on and off for about 6 years now........

 

I have quite a few early brass diesels, mostly Alcos, I bought a private road fleet some years ago from the Colin who used to run MTK and whose second name I can't for the life of me remember. They are quite nice to have but hard work to run and keep running.

 

Tom

Link to post
Share on other sites

They do actually have spur gears coupling the axles on one truck - I have a couple of Baldwin steeple cabs of the same vintage. But neither do anything clever like work...... they are in my " to do " file.

 

Problem with all these early brass diesels is the detail on them is not that wonderful anyway, very flat usually, I think the Tenshodo at least are just stamped brass. The need a lot of work and money spending on then to make them work OK and most have a brass floor which prevents easy chassis replacement with a commercial unit. I have a Pensey FA1 that I've been trying to mate with a P2k FA chassis on and off for about 6 years now........

 

I have quite a few early brass diesels, mostly Alcos, I bought a private road fleet some years ago from the Colin who used to run MTK and whose second name I can't for the life of me remember. They are quite nice to have but hard work to run and keep running.

 

Tom

I am pretty sure it is single axle, although the picture is not clear, as there is no gear on the second axle, even at the angle it is it would show, also the plate where the gears should be is not there, may have been removed.

Also I have had plenty of early brass experience, 50 years!, and have often seen one axle powered versions before now. Most tiny wheeled ones from this vintage used terry coil springs, worm, and spur connecting gears, like Soho and Suydam.

 

It is an early type model as the rectifier for the lights is a selenium stacked disc type, 1950's vintage. Brass models from that period are coined, not etched, stamped out and coin impressed. Togo and Tenshodo were experienced in medal and coin making per-war as well as toys. Tetsudo Mokeisha, a hobby shop and maker, were the first manufacturer with photo etching brass parts, supplying Red Ball and Ken Kidder. They sold other makers equipment as well as their own productions.

 

A coined surface is far better than etched, no undercut and multiple depths are possible as well, it all depends on the designer.

 

 

Stephen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at the photo on ebay you can just see the train of black spur gears behind the wheels on the far side of the power bogie. They are mounted on the far side of the brass subframe. So the vertical shaft motor drives on the visible gear and these transfer the drive to the other axle.

 

Sadly the close-up pic of the bogie is so far out of focus you cannot really make anything out. But here is an enhanced view from one of the others.

 

post-6049-126755713247_thumb.jpg

 

And here is an underside view of a similar bogie ( on a MEW Hall-Scott car)

 

post-6049-126755841599_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

While all of this is very interesting, the chances of a boxcab working a shortline is pretty rare. The boxcabs spent most of their lives in port or urban areas. The one really noteable exception was the Texas Mexican Railroad that "kitbashed" their own boxcabs (and was one of the first, if not the first RR to dieselize).

Link to post
Share on other sites

There were quite a few more running on minor roads. Ones that spring to mind are the very early boxcab on the Dan Patch( though it spent quite a bit of it's life as a straight electric) and there was even one on a logging line - 100 tonner Red River Lumber #502

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that bothered about the prototype for the shortline branch that much! Boxcabs were used quite widely on US shortlines towards the end of their lives, they were mainline yard shunters basically, and heavier than the 44 ton used on the Stewartstown line. Nw-2 did operate on the line, but of course they mainly used the Plymouth etc.

 

The line is to be an extension off a main line, so other locos will appear, mainly PRR/NYC, and there are some vintage over head electric as well to run.

 

I will do some shots of the conversion parts for the Ernie chassis later today, and a few brass parts for the roof, including the radiators. The mouldings are OK, but not round pipes!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that bothered about the prototype for the shortline branch that much! Boxcabs were used quite widely on US shortlines towards the end of their lives,

 

I guess "widely" is relative since they were built maybe in the hundreds and other types of engines were built in the thousands. I've never seen a picture of a boxcab in service on a shortline. 44 tonners, 45 tonners, 70 tonners, SW1, NW2, S2, RS1, VO660, VO1000, lots. Boxcabs, not so much. Not saying it can't happen, its just not real typical.

Link to post
Share on other sites

whilst it may be acknowledged that the use of early [pre-WW2] boxcab locos may have been quite rare on a 'shortline'...there is nothing to prevent its usage in this instance.....especially as the Stewartstown line is being used as a catalyst for ideas....an inspiration, rather than being modelled exactly.

 

Stephen's suggestion of erecting some wires and running electrics [not exactly his words, but one follows the other surely?] does mean boxcabs can appear, altered somewhat...

 

More importantly, the boxcab idea seems to me to be an ideal use for the UE chassis...another idea I have played with, is to power a doodlebug, or electric combine, with one....

 

 

What about powering a Shay?

 

 

What are you doing for sleepers?

Link to post
Share on other sites

No overhead wires on the shortline layout, but there is a surrounding line around the walls of the room which will act as the PRR connection and main line, and that may have overhead done.

 

The Shortline sleepers and track will be scratchbuilt, oak sleepers with code 55 rail, spiked, and PC points, and the outer track is code 83 Peco, plus some PC track, done mainly as a test track. The outer tracks will pass under the shortline on the corner surfacing on the other side of the room.

 

Stephen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This box car thing is a bit addictive.....I too have been totally smitten by the Bronx Terminal set up.......and this is the progress so far....

 

post-7062-126780177884.jpg

 

post-7062-126780179107.jpg

 

I've scratchbuiult it from various bits of scrap brass laying around in the workshop, but to make life a bit more difficult I've done it in S scale of which I know very little.....so it's a flying by the seat of my pants job. Have done some artwork for the underframe and bogies which has gone off to the etchers.....we'll see how it all pans out. Next job is scratchbuilding loadsa boxcars!!!.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

This box car thing is a bit addictive.....I too have been totally smitten by the Bronx Terminal set up.......and this is the progress so far....

 

 

I've scratchbuiult it from various bits of scrap brass laying around in the workshop, but to make life a bit more difficult I've done it in S scale of which I know very little.....so it's a flying by the seat of my pants job. Have done some artwork for the underframe and bogies which has gone off to the etchers.....we'll see how it all pans out. Next job is scratchbuilding loadsa boxcars!!!.....

john,

 

that is awesome, I wished I could make stuff in brass, but I have no ideas, you sir, have got talent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

John, That is very nice indeed - I still haven't got the baseboard built for my 149th Street Erie Terminal (2010 layouts) - It is cut out, and ready to stick - but this end of UK is STILL too b***y cold to be outside in the garage sticking it together and laying track! angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is very nice - I still haven't got the baseboard built for my 149th Street Erie Terminal (2010 layouts) - It is cut out, and ready to stick - but this end of UK is STILL too b***y cold to be outside in the garage sticking it together and laying track! angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif

 

my dad has given me the same excuse too, he lives in cheshire, he is also modeling US.

Link to post
Share on other sites

my dad has given me the same excuse too, he lives in cheshire, he is also modeling US.

 

Yes - this winter has been going on a bit - our first snow was November, and we had one day in early February ( which is when I got the boards cut!) when it was warm enough to be outside - needless to say the following day it SNOWED!ohmy.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice boxcab, etching the bogies?

 

 

Yup.......inner frame with the motor/gears/wheels and then cosmetic bogie sideframes attached.......have to fettle the axleboxes up out of something.

 

re: cold garages.....the slight benefit is that when you are soldering , if you catch a finger with the iron your hands are so cold you don't feel it...well not much anyway ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

In my case it is more likely to be " catch your fingers with a saw......."

Don't say that, there are miles of wood to cut on the bench top band saw, all the wooden sleepers, a trestle bridge, and three all wood planked buildings to cut out the scale lumber for.....wood pushers are used with the saw! At least I can sit whilst doing the sawing...with the workshop radio on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...