Chester Northgate Station (Layout of a Lifetime)maybe

[tender]

Hi Martin,

Been quietly following your impressive shed build and just found your layout thread. Will be keenly following progress. Maybe we could meet up sometime as the Llangollen Railway is a regular of ours the run over being only an hour or so drive. We usually park up at Carrog to avoid the problems with parking in Llangollen and its nearer for us coming from Bangor.

 

Ray.

[gismorail]

Hi Ray,

Thank you for you kind comments about the shed build it's certainly created a lot of interest and I do hope that it will give others the confidence to have a go at building their own 'man cave' . I have over the years seen so many fellow railway modellers being disappointed with sectional sheds, which at the end of the day are just garden sheds for keeping lawn mowers and tools in but not up to the demands required for our hobby.

Would be nice to meet up with you next time your over this way, probably with better weather one hopes. Like you thread about the stepper motor for your turn table very cleaver project Sir. The turn table on Northgate shed has a GC stepper motor fitted but cost a lot more than your's .....if only I'd known 

Keep in touch 

cheers

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Martin

 

Looking at the shed photos you might be wanting one of these thingys.

 

 

 

 

[gismorail]

Evening Clive, 

 

Already got one     

 

The real one as it was 'back in the day'

 

 

and in model form 

 

Have you scratch built yours ... looks very nice The one on Northgate shed is a Wadsworth etch brass kit which is also available in 7mm. Took my a while to get mine together but am happy with the result. 

 

 

 

 

[gismorail]

Been doing a bit more in the shed this evening and have been sorting out the control panel for the lighting effects. I have put together a transformer unit to supply 12 dc for lights and effect / signal etc plus a 16 volt ac supply for the point motors. 

 

 

Internal shot of the transformer box

 

 

Lighting effects control panel 

 

The hole at the bottom of the panel is for a control toggle for the gate into the brewery which is operated by a servo motor. I have added this  a trail for the main layout as I'm thinking of operating all points and signals by servo's , seems to give greater and simple control at a fraction of the cost of slow action point motors and signals plus the added bonus the ' signal bounce' can be added of more visual effect.

 

I have also made a start to the fiddle yard reconstruction , the original fiddle yard was designed for operation from behind the layout but now the layout is in the new shed I want to be able to operate for back or front depending on the circumstances.

 

 

It's a very simple set up with a turntable for loco turning and a head shunt from the brewery internal siding .

 

Hopefully one of tomorrows jobs will be get the fiddle yard finished and so testing 

 

Well that's today's activities updated not had a bad day progress wise so it time for bed and more ideas to think over 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Evening Clive, 

 

Already got one     

 

Loco depot chester northgate 009 (400x276).jpg

The real one as it was 'back in the day'

 

DSC03056 (245x300).jpg

 

and in model form 

 

Have you scratch built yours ... looks very nice The one on Northgate shed is a Wadsworth etch brass kit which is also available in 7mm. Took my a while to get mine together but am happy with the result. 

HI Martin

 

Mine is scratch built. My friend loaned me copy of the instructions for the kit as they contain a picture of the etch. The intention was to copy the components and make it from plastic card. It is supposed to be one awaiting demolition. When I looked at it and photos of the real ones I realised that the bucket that carries the coal would never get up to the top and tip. The "rails" are not the right shape. So working from photos I built the one that was at Kings Cross passenger loco, before gluing the bucket in place my one ran up the rails and tipped. There were a couple of other issues with the kit and in viewing the photos of the ones at Kings Cross and Colchester it did not match either, or the one at Hatfield which the kit is supposed to represent.

[gismorail]

Good morning Clive,

Its certainly an impressive bit of scratch building the kit was not easy to put together and had me scratching my head for so time although I did find the instructions misleading to be honest. 

They were cleaver bits of kit and I understand that the loco crews at Chester were very thankful as it was the only labour saving machinery that they had and I'm not sure how many were put into operation on the Cheshire Lines .  I never saw it in real life but I understand that the frame was one of the last items to be demolished at the end. 

Many thanks for sharing your model 

[gismorail]

Good evening all, well another day spend in the 'man cave' today laying track and constructing a turntable for turning the loco's without having to pick them up every time they need turning. For a Peco turntable at  £39.00 I reckon its worth the investment and should save any damage. Have had to use a bit of mixture of track mainly Peco concrete sleeper type that I got second hand years ago and I found a turn out in the box mark ' you might need me sometime'  

The point and the turntable will be automated by a right hand index finger just because I can't be bothered making up another jumper cable from the main boards , yes lazy sod but at least I know I'm not going to having any engineering nightmares........well I hope not

 

 

 

 

 

hope it's of interest to all time for time me thinks. 

 

 

[67A]

Hi Martin,

 

Thanks for forwarding the details of your project, it makes very interesting reading and I can see a really good interpretation of the area taking shape, I'll have a look through some of my stuff to see if there is anything that may be of help to you. Keep up the good work.

[Andrew P]

Hi Martin, late to the Party this week, I must of missed it DID MISS IT!  when it was on Page 1 a couple of Days ago, its looking really good mate and that Man Cave is certainly proving its worth, just hope it doesn't get Blown off the Ledge and down into the Valley below, hahah.

[Andrew P]

Forgot to say, really nice workbench.

[gismorail]

Thanks Andy for your kind comments. The man cave has stood firm through the ongoing storms so far and it's lovely warm and cosy inside.    

[gismorail]

It's been a while since I updated this thread with any progress on the construction of the proposed layout of Chester Northgate station but I have not been idle just trying to work out how the layout is going to fit into the new home. 

I'm sure I'm not the only person to aspire to build the layout of one's childhood spotting days, to imagine that I could create scenes from my pasted memories that helped me into a wonderful hobby that gives one the opportunity produce these scenes from the past. Scenes that I am fortunate to remember well and that have had the added help of publications and photographs that make ones memories even clearer.   

So given the fact that the new model railway shed has an area of 26' x 12' to build such a layout I started out by working from the 1958 O/S map as to how much of the track plan I was able to get into the above area. 

 

 

It soon became evident that it was going to be a tight fit and to model both the junction lines as true to the prototype as possible it was going to need the omission of the avoiding line and therefore the triangle. I have worked on scaling down the platform lengths so that a helix could be fitted into the top right hand end of the layout and therefore bring the Dee Marsh line back underneath the layout into a fiddle yard. The lower leg of the junction which goes towards the Manchester direction has an important role to play in the scheme of the layout as it's gives access to the engine shed, banana depot and goods yard alongside the main station buildings all of which are at a lower level so the full length of this junction would be needed to make such a transition possible. 

 

 

The above picture shows the end of the goods yard in relation to the main station building and the level difference. 

 

I have in the mean time been giving very careful thought about the construction of a helix to get the Dee Marsh junction into a lower levelled fiddle yard and have had some good fed back from Andy of Dent Station fame within these pages and although I will not be running trains as long as his I do have concerns regarding the effective operation of such a construction. So I think further head scratching would seem to be the order of the next week. 

 

[gismorail]

Morning all well after a couple of days of further head scratching I have for now put the junction issues to one side and have been considering on the main station area and goods area. As I mentioned in the previous update the long sweeping curve towards Manchester has an important role in the operation of the whole site as access to both the shed and goods yard is along this curve therefore it is important that the planning for this part of the layout is right. Another consideration that I have become aware of is due to the fact that the main station area has an overall roof, access to this area is going to be somewhat restricted and when I look at the amount of track work that will have to be along the front of the layout I realised that compromise was going to be the order of the day. 

 

After some measuring and sketching I have come up with the above modified track plan which has seen the sidings to the banana depot having to be removed to reduce the width of the layout This is a shame in many ways as the banana trains were quite a feature of the scene at Chester Northgate but I will have to look and the possible relocation of the warehouse into the main goods yard area. 

The other change that I have decided is needed is the omission of the LNWR / GWR lines which pasted beneath the station heading towards to North Wales and Holyhead. This is quite a major feature of the area to be deleted which I am not too happy about but I just cannot see anyway to included this feature without making access to the station area possible. 

Well will have another rethink on this and post my thoughts after further thought. 

[postman23]

Hello. Can I add to this thread to say that I too am copying elements of chester northgate for my layout of a lifetime.

 

I am adapting the track plan for Buxton Midland for mine and the junction is "off scene". I am however planning to run stock that ran into Chester Northgate... to the 1935 working timetable.

 

I am happy to share stock drawings, timetables etc if people want.

 

I am planning to use Chester Northgate station, trainshed and loco shed though in replacement for the Buxton structures.

 

I would be really grateful if people would share pictures of these structures with me.. in particular I have no pictures of the road side of the station building and the signal box.

 

I would be really grateful if people could help me fill these gaps.

[gismorail]

Hi postman, 

Hope my thoughts have helped in your research though 1935 is a lot earlier than what I have in mind as I was looking around 1956 onwards as I remember it.

It would have be mostly CLC coaching stock and Great Central Locomotives at that time. In fact you could justify the LNER Sentinel - Cammell  steam railcar no 51909 'Waterloo' which was shedded at Northgate from around 1935 it was a replacement for No 51913 'Rival' until 1941 when it was transferred to Leeds. In its time at Northgate it primarily used for a shuttle service to Shotton to connect with North Wales coast trains at Shotton High Level Monday to Friday had a shed day on the Saturdays  when the service was booked for a Tank engine and coaches but did two round trips on a Sunday. I seem to remember reading somewhere that these Steam Railcars were also used on the Winsford branch for a short time but it was not successful. 

 

If you look earlier on in the thread there are a couple of shots of the road outside the main station buildings ,the main forecourt always had Crosville Buses parked up probably as an overflow parking area from the main depot which was further down Victoria Rd. 

Chester South box which was just by the junction at the station end and Chester East box where pure Cheshire Lines pattern I do have a picture somewhere will dig it out and post it when I can. 

 

The train shed on Peter Denny's Buckingham layout was inspired by Chester Northgate I believe so it might be worth your while tracking down photographs about the layout probably in an old Railway Modeller ,

 

If I can give you any further information please ask. 

[postman23]

Thanks a lot for the reply. Yes I rather fancy Waterloo... I think one can but the body etch from Worsley Works... But I haven't any underframe detail or bogie detail ... Yet.

 

Thanks for the tip off about Peter Denny's trainshed... Wow... Following in a legends footsteps!

 

Yes, I noticed the pictures.. Perhaps the presence of the busses is the reason I've found photographs hard to find. I've got a floor plan from Chester local history library... But no elevations.

 

I spent the evening drawing up some MSJ&A stock for the etchers in 7mm. The CLC bought them after electrification of the Manchester to Altrincham line. I fancied something different!

 

I'm waiting for some 6 wheel 3rds from Quainton Road models ... They provided additional coaches for Waterloo and the Saturday service.... According to the working time table and carriage diagram I have.

 

I would really love to see the pictures of the south signal box if you have them?

 

I guess you are working in 4mm?

[fudgie4ever]

This looks a really good project, a quite unique railway layout. I was always fascinated that Chester had a terminus station. I was born December 69, a year after closure. My parents used the station regularly.

What led me to your page was my search for any info on the Dee Marsh to Mickle Trafford line. I cycle on the line quite regularly, but have had a life long interest in the line. A life long rail enthusiast, I grew up in Blacon in the 70's/80's and the line was of great interest to me. Not loads of traffic, Class 40,25 on scrap/ore trains, plus the rolled steel from Ravenscraig, usually covered by 40/47's. I was one of the few kids at the time who didn't throw rocks or put obstructions on the track. It must have been a nightmare for the crews working trips on the line at the time. The line closed in 84 and re-opened in August 86. Then it was 20/37/47 hauled traffic, often moving very slowly due to the poor condition of the single track. I have scoured high and low for pics of the line, but there isn't a lot out there. Would be very grateful of any links or pics to see.

[gismorail]

By the sound of you current research you have probably found most of the information that's out there. With regard to the last period of the line back in the late 80's the final nail in the coffin was the fact gypsies  were robbing track near the new Chester by pass at Hoole and a safety case kicked in resulting in the lifting of the line. 

[gismorail]

After much head scratching    and banging my head against the wall       I have come realise that I just cannot get the proposed layout into the space available without major comprises to the prototype. It is mainly because the main station and goods yard is just too wide to be manageable in model form and I know that I can move things around to make areas more accessible but I just feel that the atmosphere of the prototype will be lost. It has been a real disappointment to have to make this decision but experience from passed projects tells me that if I just carry on regardless I just will not be happy with the outcome which it will only cause further heart ache latter on plus and waste of time and money. 

 

So to the future 

Chester Northgate 6D

 

I have been busy on the locomotive depot which I started as a test track and am glad to say that it will be going to the Bala Lake Railway Exhibition  on the Bank Holiday weekend at the end of May 2016. I will post a thread regarding this event.  

[Andrew P]

After much head scratching    and banging my head against the wall       I have come realise that I just cannot get the proposed layout into the space available without major comprises to the prototype. It is mainly because the main station and goods yard is just too wide to be manageable in model form and I know that I can move things around to make areas more accessible but I just feel that the atmosphere of the prototype will be lost. It has been a real disappointment to have to make this decision but experience from passed projects tells me that if I just carry on regardless I just will not be happy with the outcome which it will only cause further heart ache latter on plus and waste of time and money. 

 

So to the future 

Chester Northgate 6D

 

I have been busy on the locomotive depot which I started as a test track and am glad to say that it will be going to the Bala Lake Railway Exhibition  on the Bank Holiday weekend at the end of May 2016. I will post a thread regarding this event.  

Morning Martin, sorry to read of your woes regarding the proposed Station mate, and I know as much as anyone, that if your not 100% happy then STOP before you go to far. I know when I came up last Year we discussed various ideas that you had for the Shed, be it one Layout or two, so will 6D be just the Depot and Fiddle Yard, like  I'm doing with North Road, or will there be running lines around the Shed?

 

OR

 

Are you still thinking O Gauge down one side to run that lovely Peak?

 

All the best whatever you decide mate. I hope to get up to Wales again in November so I can hopefully I can see some progress.

[t-b-g]

 

The train shed on Peter Denny's Buckingham layout was inspired by Chester Northgate I believe so it might be worth your while tracking down photographs about the layout probably in an old Railway Modeller ,

 

 

 

Perhaps I can help with that one......

 

 

 

I have managed to miss this one up to now but now that I have found it, I will just say that it looks like a superb project. I think that the colouring etc. round the loco shed looks just right and any layout that has a bit of GC on it is OK with me!

 

Edit. I tried to add some photos to the original post but they vanished. Hopefully, even if the project is under review, they will provide some inspiration as to what is possible. The main part of Buckingham is 12' x 2' to give an idea of what size of space would be needed.

 

Tony

Edited April 27, 2016 by t-b-g

[gismorail]

Morning Martin, sorry to read of your woes regarding the proposed Station mate, and I know as much as anyone, that if your not 100% happy then STOP before you go to far. I know when I came up last Year we discussed various ideas that you had for the Shed, be it one Layout or two, so will 6D be just the Depot and Fiddle Yard, like  I'm doing with North Road, or will there be running lines around the Shed?

 

OR

 

Are you still thinking O Gauge down one side to run that lovely Peak?

 

All the best whatever you decide mate. I hope to get up to Wales again in November so I can hopefully I can see some progress.

 

Thanks for that Andy and you are quite right about the STOP now bit , just feel that I'm not going to be happy with the outcome whatever I try to do. I have so many good memories surrounding the old Chester Northgate area railway wise that compromise would spoil the effect. 6D will be just the Depot and  fiddle yard like your North Road and I will exhibit it in that form for now then hopefully reuse the base boards, as I designed them to be recyclable ( very in thing to do one thinks ) to build an 0 gauge exhibition layout in the future. With regard to the rest of the shed I'm looking at the possible idea of building Wrexham Central which was of course one of the destinations from Chester Northgate and has the added interest that it was a joint LNER and GWR station something that is quite unique..... 

[t-b-g]

I have added photos to my original post but then it crossed my mind that if it doesn't appear as a new post, nobody might know that I have done it, so this is just to say that they are there now.

 

If that makes any sense!

 

Tony

[gismorail]

Thanks for those pics Tony it was years ahead of it's time that Buckingham layout what super modelling