Graham Hughes Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 This newly restored beauty had its first run at the weekend after undergoing restoration. The whistle is rather impressive, as is the number of driving wheels for a tank loco. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 The number of German standard parts in that thing makes a highly interesting subject for a cut-and-shut modelling project..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 That would be a fairly impressive number of wheels for an entire train. If I may be so bold Horse, I think you mean cut and stretch. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) ...., I think you mean cut and stretch. ...before shutting together, yes. I'm thinking maybe the boiler and stretched frames of a Br.45 2-10-2, plus the cab and back end of a Br.65 2-8-4T......hmmmm...... Edited May 29, 2015 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Hughes Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 You could scratch-build the chassis with Mike Sharman "Flexichas" beams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Apparently the 3rd and 4th pairs of drivers on this behemoth are flangeless, so in effect you have a very long eight-coupled chassis, which will make getting it around curves interesting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) The number of German standard parts in that thing makes a highly interesting subject for a cut-and-shut modelling project..... Except that they were built by Cegielski in Poland... Apparently the 3rd and 4th pairs of drivers on this behemoth are flangeless, so in effect you have a very long eight-coupled chassis, which will make getting it around curves interesting! They were designed to negotiate 180m radius curves, thanks to side-play in the leading pony truck (135mm), the first and last coupled wheels (35mm and 25mm, respectively) and the trailing bogie (110mm), as well as the two centre wheelsets being flangeless. Make that around a seven foot radius for an HO model. Edited May 28, 2015 by EddieB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 This newly restored beauty had its first run at the weekend after undergoing restoration. The whistle is rather impressive, as is the number of driving wheels for a tank loco. Wow! Thanks for the posting. Whilst watching the vid my wild imagination took over and my thoughts were seeing it on the reverse curves on the Cornish main line to Penzance hauling a goods ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Except that they were built by Cegielski in Poland.... ...using German standard components. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Hughes Posted May 29, 2015 Author Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Except that they were built by Cegielski in Poland... They were designed to negotiate 180m radius curves, thanks to side-play in the leading pony truck (135mm), the first and last coupled wheels (35mm and 25mm, respectively) and the trailing bogie (110mm), as well as the two centre wheelsets being flangeless. Make that around a seven foot radius for an HO model. The first twelve were built in Poland and a further eight, with detail differences such as an outside framed bogie and smaller side tanks, were built by Schwartzkopff in Berlin. The front pony truck seems to be an odd set up connected to the leading set of driving wheels in a kind of bogie arrangement. I just had a thought, if they start using it on the steam service from Sofia to Bankya I am going to need to build one in TT gauge. Edited May 29, 2015 by Graham Hughes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 ...using German standard components. You're persistent, I must say. Yes there were strong German overtones, partly because of the way that Cegielski was set up in the wake of WW1 repatriations and a degree of specification by The Bulgarians. However the Polish locomotive industry was well into its own indigenous designs by this time and I would suggest that there quite strong overtones of the PKP OKz32. On steroids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Love to see an HO model going round 2nd radius curves ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 You're persistent, I must say. .... I'm paid to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I wondered what the tank wagon was for in the video. It could be an auxiliary water supply, as presumably there are now few, if any, old columns still in place. The other thought was that the loco had been converted to burn oil, but this seems unlikely as it is a heritage item. All ideas gratefully received! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Hughes Posted May 29, 2015 Author Share Posted May 29, 2015 The tank wagon is to supply water for the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I'm paid to be. Blimey! Is RMWeb paying us now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Whatever it's origins, it's one heck of an impressive machine, thanks for posting so interesting a video. Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Hughes Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Here's a video of the operation to go and collect the loco for restoration. The train of a blue and yellow electric loco, a red diesel and a lime green tender would be an unusual (and colourful) model. When they get 46.03 out of the shed it is behind another class 46, one of the German built 3-cylinder ones, and one of the earlier class 45 0-12-0Ts. Plenty of restoration potential yet. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The front radial axle is connected to the leading driving axle by a lever arrangement, forming a Krauss-Helmholtz bogie. This was applied extensively in Germany and elsewhere, so not exactly odd. Incidentally, Pat Ransome-Wallis opines (in The Last Steam Locomotives of Eastern Europe) that the class 46 was "of obviously German design". Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 If you look carefully you can see the vertical pivots in the rods to allow for sideplay in the wheelsets. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullsteamer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 They were designed to negotiate 180m radius curves... Eddie, what task or role were they designed to perform? Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Hughes Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 They were intended primarily for hauling coal trains from Parnik to Sofia. Parnik is only 20 miles from the capital which is presumably why tank locos were chosen, as the coal and water capacity of a tender is not required over the short distance. They were also used on heavy goods trains and as banking locos elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Eddie, what task or role were they designed to perform? Cheers, Mark. As Graham says, they were intended for the Pernik-Sofia line, where the ruling gradient is 1 in 40. I'd say that the necessity to negotiate tight radius curves was to increase their route availability (unfortunately most of the technical background is to be found in books written in German, Polish or Bulgarian). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jamieson Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I have an album by the late Swiss photographer Harald Nave which shows a Pernik to Sofia coal train headed by a class 46 with a Kriegslok (BDZ class 15) pilot and banked by a class 45 0-12-0T - incredible! Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariu5z Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 The first twelve were built in Poland and a further eight, with detail differences such as an outside framed bogie and smaller side tanks, were built by Schwartzkopff in Berlin. Adding a third cylinder would make it a bit more than just a detail difference. A good source on the subject is the book "Parowozy normalnotorowe produkcji polskiej" (Polish-built standard gauge steam locomotives) by Bogdan Pokropiński. He states that in 1930 HCP works in Poznań, Poland received an order to build 12 heavy tank engines for the mountain freight service. Bulgarian railways were already planning to buy those in Germany in 1919-1920. The engine was designed by the German engineer August Meister in 1921 and it was to be built by "Schwartzkopff" in Berlin. However due to some unspecified circumstances the transaction has not materialized at that time. Instead, after almost a decade, the order went to the polish HCP factory. I believe the blueprints were obtained from Germany and presented to Polish engineers who built the engines according to those. I hope that explains the German influence on the polish built locomotive. There are some excellent detailed graphs showing the speed to power ratios of both designs at the following link http://www.railwaymodeling.com/ however the site seems to be down at the moment. Once it comes back online, you may use Google Translate to navigate trough the Bulgarian language site. At least that's what I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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