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Having constructed several plastic model kits I now want to explore etched metal kits. I can solder quite well but am struggling to find any easy (00 scale) etched kits that don't cost the world with good instructions. I'm sure there is a market for these. Any one who has knowledge to spill?

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Do you want a particular era or region - I still say as a beginner to soldering kits (no matter how confident you are with soldering electrics - brass/ns kits are different) start with a simple box type wagon. Before you get the usual recommendations - there have been lots given on previous topics with the same question, so I'll not repeat them here (others probably will - but it does depend on what you are enthused to do.

 

The biggest problem with starting out with that favourite loco build is that there is much more to do and added complexity of engineering the motor and gearbox and potentially valve gear. So many modellers give up on a loco, make engineering errors and quickly lose interest ... and the will to live :)

 

A wagon is straightforward and has few(er) parts, yet they can still be challenging. Also the sense of achievement you get is worth so much as an ego boost to take on something a bit more challenging. Fail on a loco - the first one - and you will probably never do another and feel the whole venture a waste of money.

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I'm believe there is a member of this site that makes a small brass etch for beginners to get the feel of things. Might be a platform bench or something similar. Someone will know what I mean and provide a link, I'm sure.

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I also wish to try my hand at brass wagons but unfortunately its hard to find any kits available. The only two companies I know of are Mousa Models and Falcon Brassworks, which both have their issues with ordering and availability. 

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Apart from the basic van kit, Lochgorm do some Highland wagons and vans in brass. Others offering brass wagon kits include Roxey Mouldings, London Road Models and 51L. However, it doesn't have to be a wagon. There are plenty of non-passenger stock kits for horse boxes, carriage trucks, open and closed, milk vans, even a hearse van, and many of them are relatively straightforward. The three I mentioned have several of these in their ranges, as do David Geen (I wish he would update the price list on his website) and Caley Coaches. Horse boxes in particular had a long life, apart from the antiquated LBSC Stroudley and Furness ones that are available, and could justifiably be seen almost anywhere on the network.

As Spitfire noted, some of the other ranges are hard to get hold of, and some of the other lines from the past, D&S, R&E, Blacksmith/Mallard and PMK, are rather rarer, although they do occasionally get revived in limited issues or turn up on the Internet.

If you fancy taking a chance, some of the Peter K kits are an interesting challenge - getting them may be the first hurdle. They don't come with any castings, and no instructions, and the quality is variable - some are just two sides and ends and some attempt at solebars, whilst others have floors, w-irons and all the detail you might want - and getting things to fit isn't always easy, but there are some unusual prototypes! Again his website could do with updating, the Christmas bargains have been on show for at least three years!

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Dragon Models Wales do a variety of GWR /  Welsh constituent company wagons / vans in 4mm and 7mm scales (you didn't specify what scale you were looking for).

 

No connections just know they do some simple (?) wagons.

 

As an added point until you get the hang of soldering it might be easier to glue on strapping details, they can be a pig to get on without distortion if soldered. 

 

As said above stick to something with minimal add on etched detail and a nice simmple box shape. 4 wheel carriages are also are fine if preformed / flat sided or you are happy to form the tumblehome. I'd steer clear of 6 wheelers to begin with as it's a littel more difficult to set them up.

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I also wish to try my hand at brass wagons but unfortunately its hard to find any kits available. The only two companies I know of are Mousa Models and Falcon Brassworks, which both have their issues with ordering and availability. 

 

What are the issues with the ordering and availability of Mousa Model's kits?

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What are the issues with the ordering and availability of Mousa Model's kits?

Most kits need to be reserved. Quite a few of the kits that need to be reserved may never actually be made, not to mention no clue as to the final cost. There's quite a difference between a £15 kit and a £40 kit. Until I know the total cost I won't reserve anything, despite being able to use many of the kits.

And then there are instructions, which really are needed for beginners and nice for everyone else.

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.... David Geen (I wish he would update the price list on his website) ....

 

 

That might happen.....next year!

 

What are the issues with the ordering and availability of Mousa Model's kits?

Maybe he doesn't like using PayPal?

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My own introduction to etched kits went;

 

Comet 14xx chassis - success despite my best efforts

Harder Comet chassis - failed

Comet Deans Goods chassis + these tender frames - success despite my best efforts

London Road Models van - success

Masokits DC3 underframe - success

Highlevel Pannier chassis - Complete but a long way from success yet

Finney Van - success

 

In terms of soldering; after that lot I will try anything. Whether I can make mechanicals work is an entirely different matter.

 

Oakhill

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Most kits need to be reserved.

 

Yes indeed, I've found that it is not conducive to running a profitable business to keep stocks of things than may only have one sale in five years.

 

 

Quite a few of the kits that need to be reserved may never actually be made, not to mention no clue as to the final cost. There's quite a difference between a £15 kit and a £40 kit.

 

However I am no longer developing any etched kits and concentration on the resin range. With a few exceptions drawings for all the etched kits exist and the prices are posted on the website. They are sold against a deposit because many of the drawings need updating and refactoring to fit the current packaging, as so cannot be delivered within the statuary 28 days. Of course if you were looking for one of those that aren't priced then there is nothing to stop you contacting to discuss the availability and price.

 

The resin kits aren't priced, as until the patterns are made and quotes are in from the casters, any price I offer will be a guess. It maybe that as more kits are done that might change. At the moment everyone who has pre-ordered a resin kit is contacted when they are ready so that they can confirm their order. They can, of course, cancel the order if they are not happy with the price.

 

Until I know the total cost I won't reserve anything, despite being able to use many of the kits.

 

Until I am confident that I can sell a batch of kits in a reasonable time, I am not going to invest the time and effort to produce them.

 

And then there are instructions, which really are needed for beginners and nice for everyone else.

 

I have never found it expedient to spend eight or ten hours producing instruction sheets for kits that by their nature are never going to sell more than a handful.

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Yes indeed, I've found that it is not conducive to running a profitable business to keep stocks of things than may only have one sale in five years.

 

 

 

 

However I am no longer developing any etched kits and concentration on the resin range. With a few exceptions drawings for all the etched kits exist and the prices are posted on the website. They are sold against a deposit because many of the drawings need updating and refactoring to fit the current packaging, as so cannot be delivered within the statuary 28 days. Of course if you were looking for one of those that aren't priced then there is nothing to stop you contacting to discuss the availability and price.

 

The resin kits aren't priced, as until the patterns are made and quotes are in from the casters, any price I offer will be a guess. It maybe that as more kits are done that might change. At the moment everyone who has pre-ordered a resin kit is contacted when they are ready so that they can confirm their order. They can, of course, cancel the order if they are not happy with the price.

 

 

 

Until I am confident that I can sell a batch of kits in a reasonable time, I am not going to invest the time and effort to produce them.

 

 

 

I have never found it expedient to spend eight or ten hours producing instruction sheets for kits that by their nature are never going to sell more than a handful.

I in no way intend to be rude, but this is the reason why I stated it is hard to order from Mousa Models. Even of a product isnt expected to sell for years, you should keep one or two ready to sell incase someone does buy it. If you can keep a record of fast and effective service, more people would be willing to purchase those "hard to sell kits".

 

Price is an understandable issue as lying to customers isnt advised, but an estimate at least helps, unlike Mousa which just says unknown for everything but deposit price.

 

Instructions are important. Even just a quick typed out sheet would be better than nothing. No reason to have pictures if everything is numbered, identified, or simply easily found by description. Nothing is idiot proof, and a little slip of paper with written guides would help many people immensely.

 

I wish to clarify, this is Not intended to be rude, insulting, or anything like that. This is just my experience from ordering kits from online companies. I am hesitant to buy unless I know exactly what Im getting myself into, and even a pound or two more for all items in a large order can make me reconsider the whole order. I hate seeing demand for a product and the owner struggling with getting stock in to fulfill that demand. And instructions arent just a guide for building, they can be seen as a good source for relative information to the prototype which may be hard to find otherwise.

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I would not consider Mousa Models target customer as being a beginner. It is not that they are difficult to build, just that they are a bit specialised. As for Falcon kits, forget them, until they are reintroduced as "much improved" - some of the kits simply do not deserve to be called kits and require a great deal of scratchbuilding skills and are not known for their instructions (well known for not having any). There are other kit manufacturers around.

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As for Falcon kits, forget them, until they are reintroduced as "much improved" - some of the kits simply do not deserve to be called kits and require a great deal of scratchbuilding skills and are not known for their instructions (well known for not having any). There are other kit manufacturers around.

 

I agree with your last sentence but disagree about Falcon kits.  For the more experienced modeller, they form a basis for a reasonably good model.  There are inaccuracies but that is what the experienced person can remedy.  In the meantime, the Falcon range is being improved, so don't just knock it or consign the kits to the dustbin.  There are many kits in the range that you will not find anywhere else - you just have to do a bit more work to get a really good model.  I know some very experienced modellers who make these kits.  You might recall I made the GWR Cordon (DD4) last year, not a kit for beginners but nevertheless a very good basis for a good model.

 

This thread is about someone wanting to experience brass kit building.  There are some fairly simple Falcon kits which would be fine.  They won't be top notch or accurate but do have the scope for someone to learn.

 

I would suggest either a simple open wagon to start learning on or even something lineside.  I came across Severn Models at the Exeter show yesterday.  Most of their range is in 2mm but I was told will be expanding into other scales.  There are some nice, simple garden sheds and lineside huts in 4mm which I think would be great as a starter kit.  Though designed to be stuck together with superglue, they can just as well be soldered.

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For the more experienced modeller, they form a basis for a reasonably good model.

 

That certainly has been shown to be true - but the emphasis is on the experienced modeller.

 

 

There are inaccuracies but that is what the experienced person can remedy.

That word experienced again - sure with some scratchbuilding they can produce perfectly good models. But not a beginner's kit.

 

 

In the meantime, the Falcon range is being improved, so don't just knock it or consign the kits to the dustbin.

 

Why have we seen no progress on this in how many years now? A simple re-release of a poor kit (even if somw of us are desperate for the prototype, does not make them a place for the beginner to be looking.

 

 

I know some very experienced modellers who make these kits. You might recall I made the GWR Cordon (DD4) last year, not a kit for beginners but nevertheless a very good basis for a good model.

 

Yep, and reluctantly I have built a few. But as you say "not a kit for beginners" so the fact that they can be worked on to produce a decent model is not really something we should be advocating on this topic.

 

There remains quite a few other kits out there some with very good, even illustrated, instructions. It might help us if the OP gave a little bit more indication of era or region of interest.

 

BTW I fully concur with the suggestion of Dragon Models for early GWR and some of the kit instructions are outstanding. Though if our OP is looking for SR/LSWR or NE/LNWR then that may not be to taste.

 

I would still advocate the policy of build any era/region/design as your first kit - it is more important to build it than to like what you have built. But the kit has to be a kit of the "Airfix" style - It should go together as deigned.

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A little off-beat perhaps, but the RT Models Hudson side tipper is I feel a well-designed kit with good instructions. Its made from nickel silver so takes solder nicely, there's plenty of rivets to punch out which is good practice, all parts fit as they should and there's only a couple of (small) curves to form. It also comes as a complete kit with wheels. There is some fiddly folding to do, especially on the chassis. But two chassis etches are included, for OO and EM/P4, so you can practice on the one you don't want which is what I did.

 

My build can be seen here.

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In 4mm, Roxey Mouldings kits are good and quite suitable for beginners. Their range of 4-wheeled NPCS would be a good start, if the period and region suits. Connoisseur Models kits are also good, but their current production is in 7mm only.

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It makes me cross when people do not read posts properly then select bits that suit the point they wish to make.

 

I disagreed with Kenton's blanket dismissal of Falcon kits.  I did say that for the more experienced modeller the kits form the basis of a model but they will need that experience in order to make a decent model. 

 

However, I also said:

 

This thread is about someone wanting to experience brass kit building.  There are some fairly simple Falcon kits which would be fine.  They won't be top notch or accurate but do have the scope for someone to learn.

 

 . . . which was conveniently left out.  I went on to suggest a simple open wagon.

 

Furthermore, I said that the Falcon range was being improved.  Anyone who knows even a little about the range will know that it is extensive.  It was only recently taken over by the people at Dart Castings.  I consider it unreasonable to expect miracles in a short time - getting the Falcon Range up to scratch is going to be a very long job, perhaps taking a lifetime.  As I understand things, Dart Castings is not a full-time job just like a number of other producers of materials for our hobby.  We should be thankful there are people prepared to devote time to supplying us with the raw materials for our hobby.

 

In the meantime, I advocate patience and before criticising, informing oneself.

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It makes me cross when people do not read posts properly then select bits that suit the point they wish to make.

 

So that would be the bit in the OP

am struggling to find any easy (00 scale) etched kits that don't cost the world with good instructions.

The bit about Falcon kits being easy, having good instructions, and the bit I didn't read there about being an experienced modeller, or that any suggestion of a kit suitable for an experienced modeller would be appropriate.

 

Falcon kits already have their own long running topic where this specific debate is probably more relevant. But as I asked there when are we experienced kit builders going to see some positive announcement about

I said that the Falcon range was being improved.

no evidence of that so far, and "recently" isn't quite the appropriate adjective regarding developments.

 

Also with ebay prices going through the roof for these sought after collector's items perhaps we should deter beginners from starting them so that more experienced modellers can get their hands on them and actually complete them. Oh and that will be another fail on the OP' requirement on cost.

 

Anyway that is enough of Falcon kits for this topic (agenda? or not) I wait for something new/revised to emanate. Meanwhile they remain inappropriate to the OP so really shouldn't be discussed here.

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I in no way intend to be rude, but this is the reason why I stated it is hard to order from Mousa Models. Even of a product isnt expected to sell for years, you should keep one or two ready to sell incase someone does buy it. If you can keep a record of fast and effective service, more people would be willing to purchase those "hard to sell kits".

Kits are not alone in terms of limited production. Pre-ordering is a fact of life with RTR these days as can be seen with the runs produced by major manufacturers. Since most kits these days come from "cottage industries" expecting them to produce more "on spec" is just not reasonable.

 

Cheers,

 

David

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Kits are not alone in terms of limited production. Pre-ordering is a fact of life with RTR these days as can be seen with the runs produced by major manufacturers. Since most kits these days come from "cottage industries" expecting them to produce more "on spec" is just not reasonable.

 

Cheers,

 

David

I do not expect an individual to have tons of stock available at a moments notice, but I would expect to be able to purchase one or two "available" kits without waiting months or years for 10 other people to agree to buy them as well.

With Mousa, its not preordering, its reserving a copy "if" enough people show interest. That kit may never be produced.

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We don't take money for pre-orders, we don't bank cheques if the kit is not in stock and we don't advertise or produce kits in batches. None of our kits is out of production and will not be, they may be out of stock but not for more than four weeks (and that's only because of delays by the etchers). We don't find this difficult and have built up a very large range of kits in 13 years.

Judith and Michael Edge

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After chatting to Geoff at a show he persuaded me to give my first etched kit rolling stock a try (I'd already built a signal), and I went for a replacement Comet tender for a Black 5. My soldering could've been better in places and it still needs finishing on the paintwork side but it works and it's very satisfying seeing it moving around. I had no fundamental diffifculties building it although learned a good bit in doing so (and found the instructions very helpful).

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