Bachmann to produce S Stock for London Transport Museum

[Mel_H]

Latest update, one motorised car fitted with Lenz Standard 21+ decoder and test run on digital on its own. Now waiting on its own for other motorised car to get its decoder fitted before serious testing begins - just wonder if the motorised cars can take the 8-car unit up my gradients without the need for the traction tyres.

 

LUL-S-Stock-001.jpg

 

Keith

OT I know, but can you tell us about the Polish interloper in your picture please?

Mel

[Patrick Blake]

Sorry, but in my book, conductor couplings with the conductors/contacts missing are not conductor couplings.

I'm talking specifically about the S Stock couplings, I know that they don't have contacts which they should have. I clearly clarified this in my post.

[Tase]

Envious of all those that are receiving their sets I called the museum shop to enquire about mine. I was told that the first 150 sets were sent out yesterday and that the second batch - of which mine is in - will be shipped out on Friday.

Hth.

Postie has just been....mine is 147.

 

I like the ticket too. See you all next Saturday!

[Roy P]

 The trailer cars are not particularly free running due to the drag of the wiper pickups. A bit of a shame then that Bachmann didn't employ the conductive axle bearings as on the Pullman vehicles.

After trying various permutations of motor and trailer, straight and curve, I might conclude that removal of this drag will fix the traction issue without the traction tyres but at the expense of any lighting installation option.

The layout will be more or less a straight end to end with a double junction and therefore will be easy for a unit that's able to get around the oval test track.

Personally, as there wasn't any intention to add internal lights to the Radley A Stock models,  the S stock can also live without it.

 

RP

[GoingUnderground]

I'm talking specifically about the S Stock couplings, I know that they don't have contacts which they should have. I clearly clarified this in my post.

I know you are, and I never thought otherwise. your post was quite clear, even to me. But if Bachmann used the conductor coupling body but didn't fit the contacts, for whatever reason (cost, or not specified by the LTM, or whatever), then they don't count as conductor couplings.

 

The decision to use dead axles which then means that the drag caused by the wipers on the wheels is greater also looks like another economy/cost reduction measure, or oversight on someone's part..

[Patrick Blake]

I know you are, and I never thought otherwise. your post was quite clear, even to me. But if Bachmann used the conductor coupling body but didn't fit the contacts, for whatever reason (cost, or not specified by the LTM, or whatever), then they don't count as conductor couplings.

It moves from away from what I am trying to point out.

I could call them 'Bachmann's advanced low line close coupling mechanism' as advertised on the LTM page. What I AM trying to explain is that they are the same ones used on the Bachmann MPV and Midland Pullman. So to address this, I said that they are 'Conductor Couplings', in terms of their design.

[GoingUnderground]

It moves from away from what I am trying to point out.

I could call them 'Bachmann's advanced low line close coupling mechanism' as advertised on the LTM page. What I AM trying to explain is that they are the same ones used on the Bachmann MPV and Midland Pullman. So to address this, I said that they are 'Conductor Couplings', in terms of their design.

Yes, and you made it abundantly clear that they are the MPV/Pullman conductor couplings, BUT with the contacts and feeds to them left out = not a conductor coupling as supplied out of the box to my way of thinking.

 

Just because a low spec low budget car shares the same body shell as its high end high performance derivative, that doesn't make it the same model. You can make it the same by adding the missing ex-works bits from the spares list for the upspec model.

 

It remains to be seen whether Bachmann will do likewise and make the genuine Pullman couplings available to be retrofitted to replace the ones supplied with the S Stock, or supply the missing contacts and related wiring loom to be added to the existing as fitted couplings to turn them into conductor couplings.

 

If Bachmann don't do either, then there is the possibility of a cottage industry springing up that offers kits with the equivalent of the missing contacts to allow S Stock owners to upgrade the couplings themselves. If shouldn't be too hard to design such a kit if the designer had access to the original Bachmann Pullman coupling to get the dimensions etc. Now that I know that the design is the same as used on the Pullman, I may investigate the option of adding the missing conductors myself, much the same as I once upgraded the front brakes on my car from drums to servo assisted discs. 

[PaulRhB]

5 min or the full hour?

[GoingUnderground]

Having just had some quiet time, SWMBO's out, I've taken a coupling apart, and I can see how neat a design it is and how cleverly the contacts would be accommodated within it. It is also easy to remove them from a car, and they can then be taken apart, but that is rather fiddly, but possible as they are simply clipped together. So retrofitting the necessary contacts and wiring loom as a kit would be within the skills of many modellers. The alternative would be retrofitting the Pullman couplers instead with the necessary contacts pre-installed. Bachmann need to be lobbied hard next weekend to either make the contacts and wiring looms available, or to sell sets of Pullman couplings which owners can fit in place of the contact free ones.

 

Getting the body off the motor cars isn't too difficult, secured with 3 screws and also by retaining lugs, under the centre of the double windows, but it is harder on the non-driving/trailer cars. where in addition to the retaining lugs under the double windows, there are additional retaining lugs under the single windows at both ends of the car, making a total of 4 per side - a craft knife blade does the trick. both styles of body shell, DM and non-driving, have some screw bosses and stand offs moulded on the ceilings, obviously intended for fitting interior lighting. In the non-driving cars, the contacts from the wheels have small eyelets in their ends where they project above the level of the chassis, making them very easy to wire up without a soldering iron, and simply begging for wiring in to a power/pick-up bus running the length of the train so that all bogies collect current - no more problems with dirty track or stalling on dead frogs..

 

As there is a motor in each driving motor, and each one has its own decoder socket, DCC users thinking of adding car lighting controlled by a decoder which would need a lighting bus running through the couplings (back to where we started). But the lighting bus could not be end to end as that would mean that it would be conencted to the lighting bus from the decoder in the other DM. The obvious thing to do would be to omit lighting bus contacts from the "A" end of the MS car 24087 as that will always be in the centre of the formation whether 4 car or 8 car.

 

I can't help thinking that the motor unit used in this model is so compact that it leaves Bachmann and/or the LT Museum very well placed to introduce more LT EMU rolling stock, and I would not be surprised if we eventually saw A Stock, COP Stock, R Stock, and possibly even F Stock from Bachmann, all using this same motor unit. It may even be small enough to use in Tube Stock - RTR EFE '38 and '59 Stock?  

[Tase]

 

I can't help thinking that the motor unit used in this model is so compact that it leaves Bachmann and/or the LT Museum very well placed to introduce more LT EMU rolling stock, and I would not be surprised if we eventually saw A Stock, COP Stock, R Stock, and possibly even F Stock from Bachmann, all using this same motor unit. It may even be small enough to use in Tube Stock - RTR EFE '38 and '59 Stock?

 

Now, that would be something! Lets hope the S stock is a success which hopefully will lead to more LU models.

[Patrick Blake]

Yes, and you made it abundantly clear that they are the MPV/Pullman conductor couplings, BUT with the contacts and feeds to them left out = not a conductor coupling as supplied out of the box to my way of thinking.

I made it very clear. The couplings are designed as conductor couplings. This is what I am pointing out to you.

I understand what you're saying. I'm sure that I, and I'm sure that everybody else knows what a Conductor Coupling is. At no point, did I refer the S Stock couplings as functioning like Conductor Couplings.

 

Moving swiftly forward with this. What I am trying to get at, is pretty much what GoingUnderground has explained in length about the couplings. Having already fiddled with these types of couplings on a Pullman Coach (not mine) before hand. The S Stock couplings in comparison are identical in design but do not feature the delicate contacts that sit between the two halves of the couplings which clip together.

 

I will inquire about the availability of replacement couplings from Bachmann or possibly explore other alternatives if any.

 

I can't help thinking that the motor unit used in this model is so compact that it leaves Bachmann and/or the LT Museum very well placed to introduce more LT EMU rolling stock, and I would not be surprised if we eventually saw A Stock, COP Stock, R Stock, and possibly even F Stock from Bachmann, all using this same motor unit. It may even be small enough to use in Tube Stock - RTR EFE '38 and '59 Stock?  

 

Now, that would be something! Lets hope the S stock is a success which hopefully will lead to more LU models.

Interesting that you mention this. I spoke to someone who is likely to be following this Thread. He explained that with EFE and Gilbow Holdings morphed into Bachmann. Potentially, Bachmann could use the same molds used to make the Static 1938, 1959 and 1962 Tube Stock. Though retooling is required to correct some of the mistakes in the detailing of these types of Stock.

The Chassis, although already White Metal, would need redesigning to accommodate the same type of low-drive motor unit. Trailer chassis would be best made of lighter materials. And new trailing bogies would be required.

All in all, there is potential for a Ready-To-Run 1938, 1959/62 Stock Train. Plus, with the LTM's Heritage 1938 Tube Stock train, there's also a marketing opportunity for them.

[tetsudofan]

Since my last posting on this thread I've been running my 6-car S Stock every evening for upto an hour or so. This evening I decided to add the last two cars to make an 8-car train to see if the complete  train would make it up my 3ft radius 2% gradient.

 

Much to my surprise the unit climbed the gradient without any sign of trouble. A few circuits later I stopped the train and restarted it and, again, without any sign of trouble it moved off smoothly. This really surprised me as I was not getting that performance earlier in the week:

 

 

So, what did I do? I:

 

- fitted the replacement wheelsets on the powered bogies

 

- bent back the wipers on all middle car bogies so they did not make contact with the wheels (as have no interest fitting interior lighting)

 

- ran-in the units for at least 5 hours spread over four days

 

Final bonus as far as I concerned is that the 8-car unit will just fit in one of my Train-Safe storage tubes. The unit will not take up parking space on the layout (which is at a premium), will not have to be uncoupled/coupled for storage off the layout..... and when I want to run the unit the tube just gets connected to the layout and off we go. Simples:

 

 

It's interesting how similar the LUL livery is to the SBB-Zurich ZVV livery on the double-decker in the tube under the S Stock

 

Keith

(with apologies for the rubbish quality of the picture of the tubes!!)

[lazythread]

 

I can't help thinking that the motor unit used in this model is so compact that it leaves Bachmann and/or the LT Museum very well placed to introduce more LT EMU rolling stock, and I would not be surprised if we eventually saw A Stock, COP Stock, R Stock, and possibly even F Stock from Bachmann, all using this same motor unit. It may even be small enough to use in Tube Stock - RTR EFE '38 and '59 Stock?  

 

A 1937 stock flared bodyshell would cover the following,

Q38 Driving Motor,

Q38 Trailer (without cab windows)

C-O/P Driving Motor (with and without cab vent)

C-O/P Trailer (without cab windows)

R38 Driving Motor.

That's an awful lot of types to amortise costs over for one basic bodyshell. Of course there are detail and underframe equipment differences.

 

Add an R47/49/59 Non-Driving Motor bodyshell, and as an extra, an R49 Driving Motor bodyshell and you've covered a large part of LT's surface stock trains from 1937 to 1983 - Q38, COP and R stock. I'd be up for some.

 

As a further dream, and I don't know how commercially viable this would be, how about producing the the following, all non-powered (to run with a Q38 powered Driving Motor)

Q23 Driving Motor

Q27 Driving Motor

Q31/5 Trailer.

 

I'm sure many of you know that the District ran 6 or 8 car trains for many years (DM+T+T+DM+T+DM and T+DM added for 8 cars) and the Q stock was not in fixed sets. So these last 3 types could legitimately be sold individually as coaches, to enable you to mix and match your own District Line "Fish and Parcels" train.

Edited September 21, 2015 by lazythread

[Patrick Blake]

A 1937 stock flared bodyshell would cover the following,

Q38 Driving Motor,

Q38 Trailer (without cab windows)

C-O/P Driving Motor (with and without cab vent)

C-O/P Trailer (without cab windows)

R38 Driving Motor.

That's an awful lot of types to amortise costs over for one basic bodyshell. Of course there are detail and underframe equipment differences.

 

Add an R47/49/59 Non-Driving Motor bodyshell, and as an extra, an R49 Driving Motor bodyshell and you've covered a large part of LT's surface stock trains from 1937 to 1983 - Q38, COP and R stock. I'd be up for some.

 

As a further dream, and I don't know how commercially viable this would be, how about producing the the following, all non-powered (to run with a Q38 powered Driving Motor)

Q23 Driving Motor

Q27 Driving Motor

Q31/5 Trailer.

 

I'm sure many of you know that the District ran 6 or 8 car trains for many years (DM+T+T+DM+T+DM and T+DM added for 8 cars) and the Q stock was not in fixed sets. So these last 3 types could legitimately be sold individually as coaches, to enable you to mix and match your own District Line "Fish and Parcels" train.

I wish I could see all the above happen. I guess it's up to Bachmann to see if making more LT/LU stock would be viable at no loss. I hope that the S Stock sells well next weekend and the following weeks after leading to Christmas.

 

We could see a lot more LU modelers now, so the market for LU rtr models could potentially open up.

The LTM does have two Q38 and one R49 DM. Bachmann could use these to make 3D scans.

 

I certainly would like to buy a rtr A60/62 Stock Train, that can neatly sit between my Sherlock Holmes and S Stock Train. It would make a neat addition to the Metropolitan Range and is a popular model to a much wider audience.

 

Patrick

 

[Jeff Smith]

With all this talk of RTR LT stock and the recent B0-B0 release I'm amazed that no one has mentioned the track.....and called for RTL 4-rail track!

 

As far as I know most is still bullhead/chaired but there may well be some FB as track is replaced. The easiest way to simulate this is with the Peco components but you have to drill the sleepers, fit the insulators and slide the rail in. For a more prototypical look the C&L components probably would look better and I believe they also do correct section rail.

 

Here is a small display section of C&L P4 RTL track with Peco insulators and code 60 FB rail. I think it looks pretty good but others have argued that the Peco code 60 is too thin when viewed from above.

 

[lazythread]

With all this talk of RTR LT stock and the recent B0-B0 release I'm amazed that no one has mentioned the track.....and called for RTL 4-rail track!

 

As far as I know most is still bullhead/chaired but there may well be some FB as track is replaced. The easiest way to simulate this is with the Peco components but you have to drill the sleepers, fit the insulators and slide the rail in. For a more prototypical look the C&L components probably would look better and I believe they also do correct section rail.

 

Here is a small display section of C&L P4 RTL track with Peco insulators and code 60 FB rail. I think it looks pretty good but others have argued that the Peco code 60 is too thin when viewed from above.

 

L54_1e.JPG

Hi Jeff,

 

FB is now very much the predominant track type in tunnels as well as the open sections.

 

That's a nice Metropolitan Peckett and P4 track.

[Train-Tech]

Further to my post on Friday we now have the first pictures of our new S Stock accessories which add compartment lighting, under car spark effects and door sounds without needing any pickups from the track (long life coin cell battery powered and motion activated) and here they are. First stocks on the way to London Transport Museum now and so will be on sale by them at Saturdays launch event. 

 

Going by the concerns over lack of conductor couplings etc on this forum these will hopefully help as they don't use any connection to the rails.

 

 

[Tase]

Very nice. I'll be getting a set for my S stock. Presumably I'll need two sets for a full 8 car train?

[Train-Tech]

Very nice. I'll be getting a set for my S stock. Presumably I'll need two sets for a full 8 car train?

Hi, You could either get 2 x CL150 4 car sets which will give your 8 car train 8 lit compartments, 4 cars with under car sparks and 2 cars with door tone sounders (which might sound very nice!) or you could buy one 4 car lighting and sound set and 4 of the CL51 single car lighting only strips. Two of us from Train-Tech will be at the event this Saturday to demonstrate the sets if you are going or I am sure they will be available to buy on their website soon after. Thanks, David

[tetsudofan]

Hi, You could either get 2 x CL150 4 car sets which will give your 8 car train 8 lit compartments, 4 cars with under car sparks and 2 cars with door tone sounders (which might sound very nice!) or you could buy one 4 car lighting and sound set and 4 of the CL51 single car lighting only strips. Two of us from Train-Tech will be at the event this Saturday to demonstrate the sets if you are going or I am sure they will be available to buy on their website soon after. Thanks, David

 

Certainly an interesting development. I'm not particularly interested in the lighting strips (although they do look very effective in the pictures) but would be interested in the under car sparks and door tone sounders. Any plans for these items to be available separately?

 

Keith

[Train-Tech]

Certainly an interesting development. I'm not particularly interested in the lighting strips (although they do look very effective in the pictures) but would be interested in the under car sparks and door tone sounders. Any plans for these items to be available separately?

 

Keith

Hi Keith

 

The spark-arc effect is already available in a separate small module called an AL23 which also has an output for continuous coach lighting but you do not need to use that function:

www.dcpexpress.com/al23-dual-function-spark-arcing-coach-light-effects-p-493.html

 

The sound system shares some of the circuitry of the motion sensor with microprocessor so I am afraid that is only available as an integral part of the lighting strip (of course you may feel it represents good value to just add 2 lots of sparking effects at each end of the train plus door tone sounds for the price of the complete set even if you are not particularly interested in the compartment lighting). 

 

Thanks 

 

David

Edited September 22, 2015 by Train-Tech

[tetsudofan]

Hi Keith

 

The spark-arc effect is already available in a separate small module called an AL23 which also has an output for continuous coach lighting but you do not need to use that function:

www.dcpexpress.com/al23-dual-function-spark-arcing-coach-light-effects-p-493.html

 

The sound system shares some of the circuitry of the motion sensor with microprocessor so I am afraid that is only available as an integral part of the lighting strip (of course you may feel it represents good value to just add 2 lots of sparking effects at each end of the train plus door tone sounds for the price of the complete set even if you are not particularly interested in the compartment lighting). 

 

Thanks 

 

David

 

David,

 

Many thanks for your response. I'll try and have a chat with you on Saturday to discuss the options.

 

As you may have seen from my postings above I've managed to get the 8-car unit running up my 3ft radius 2% incline but don't want to add too much extra weight to the unit just in case it overtaxes the motors so hopefully what you have suggested will be ok.

 

Look forward to seeing you on Saturday. With kind regards,

 

Keith

[Train-Tech]

David,

 

Many thanks for your response. I'll try and have a chat with you on Saturday to discuss the options.

 

As you may have seen from my postings above I've managed to get the 8-car unit running up my 3ft radius 2% incline but don't want to add too much extra weight to the unit just in case it overtaxes the motors so hopefully what you have suggested will be ok.

 

Look forward to seeing you on Saturday. With kind regards,

 

Keith

Understood Keith, though our lighting strips only weigh 4g and the battery 3g so I would think would have a negligible effect on traction, though reading this thread I can see it is an area of concern for some owners running 8 car sets. 

 

Look forward to meeting Saturday.

Kind Regards, David

Edited September 22, 2015 by Train-Tech

[Patrick Blake]

The interior lighting is very nice.

Someone in another thread somewhere said though that if S Stock was to ever have interior lighting, it should be yellow instead of white.

I was taking a late District Line Train at West Kensington earlier this week and noticed how the interior lighting differed from the D Stock, much more toned down with a shade of yellow.

 

Patrick

[Matabiau]

I have just received my S stock. So far I have only run it as a four car set and it goes like a slug! The trailer cars have so much resistance due to the electrical pick-ups that it crawls along. I hope that removing the pick-ups (given they don't serve any purpose without interior lighting) will resolve this problem.

Secondly I have one of the trailer bogies at the centre of the four car unit that derails at the same point on my layout at the bottom of an incline. I am guessing that the rear motor vehicle is pushing harder than the front one is pulling so the train concertinas. Has anyone else noticed this? It doesn't happen when the train is travelling in the opposite direction so there is an issue with this bogie. Hopefully removing the pickups will help.

Otherwise the train looks great, hopefully I can get up to all eight cars when the problems are ironed out.