Bachmann to produce S Stock for London Transport Museum

[Ouroborus]

This picture is from facebook showing the new model with the revised running number.  Not the clearest photo, but it looks rather .. er.. ‘iffy’

 

[adb968008]

This picture is from facebook showing the new model with the revised running number.  Not the clearest photo, but it looks rather .. er.. ‘iffy’

Agreed, I looked at one of these “new” release numbers in the LT Museum Shop, it looks like someone put a Tippex roller over the old number and stamped a new one on.

Decided i’d Pass.

[Huw Griffiths]

Perhaps they chose the wrong prototype? Surely the A stock would have been a better choice with a greater choice of liveries and they came as four car units.

 

The D78 stock might also have been a viable option - especially if they were to offer alternative cabs and suggest a simple way of raising the bodyshells a couple of millimetres (D-Train).

 

What makes this bit slightly ironic is the fact that, for a number of years, some model locos and stock needed to be lowered slightly, to avoid jokes about the "mile high club".

 

 

Huw.

[jjb1970]

I tend to agree that from a modellers perspective this may not have been the best choice to start with, I guess from a TfL/LTM perspective however these were the natural choice as the shiny new trains with air-con, walk through arrangement etc.

[Patrick Blake]

AFAIK, Bachmann stuck transfers over the existing ones. There's no quick and safe way of removing the old ones without damaging the paint behind. That and relabelling the boxes was worth jacking up the price of the 4 car set by £60.

 

While I would of preferred an A or D Stock, you have to remember that the S Stock was a safer choice on the basis that it wasn't in development as either a kit or 3D Model, and some 3D attempts weren't successful on the basis that the cab shape was difficult to replicate without a 3D Scan. The attitude with Ready-to-run models is often that it's not worth buying if modellers already own a kit built version. So much was the case when Heljan unveiled their prototype of the Sarah Siddons model and 4 other variations of the type.

 

Weather Bachmann chooses to design the Class 230 is yet to be seen, but I can see myself converting one back to D Stock if I did get one.

[Ouroborus]

AFAIK, Bachmann stuck transfers over the existing ones. There's no quick and safe way of removing the old ones without damaging the paint behind. That and relabelling the boxes was worth jacking up the price of the 4 car set by £60.

 

While I would of preferred an A or D Stock, you have to remember that the S Stock was a safer choice on the basis that it wasn't in development as either a kit or 3D Model, and some 3D attempts weren't successful on the basis that the cab shape was difficult to replicate without a 3D Scan. The attitude with Ready-to-run models is often that it's not worth buying if modellers already own a kit built version. So much was the case when Heljan unveiled their prototype of the Sarah Siddons model and 4 other variations of the type.

 

Weather Bachmann chooses to design the Class 230 is yet to be seen, but I can see myself converting one back to D Stock if I did get one.

 

If i bought a model that had had such a lame renumbering as it seems, Id' be expecting the price to come DOWN £60.  It seems odd that another run (after the limited edition) was commissioned with exactly the same running numbers?  Or are these unsold returns from the first batch?  Apologies if this has already been discussed.

[jjb1970]

I must admit, that renumbering does look very poor, I wouldn't be happy buying a model and it lookin like that.

[phil-b259]

Perhaps they chose the wrong prototype? Surely the A stock would have been a better choice with a greater choice of liveries and they came as four car units.

 

 

The D78 stock might also have been a viable option - especially if they were to offer alternative cabs and suggest a simple way of raising the bodyshells a couple of millimetres (D-Train).

 

What makes this bit slightly ironic is the fact that, for a number of years, some model locos and stock needed to be lowered slightly, to avoid jokes about the "mile high club".

 

 

Huw.

 

 

I must admit, that renumbering does look very poor, I wouldn't be happy buying a model and it lookin like that.

 

I think people are perhaps forgetting that railway modellers were not at the forefront of the LT museum's minds when they went and commissioned the model from Bachmann in the first place.

 

As with quite a lot of products the LT shop sells, the target audience was tourists wanting to take home a model of a ' London Underground train like what we have been riding on' during their visit.

 

The other aspect is that at the time the models were commissioned TfL was eager to promote its brand new train fleet - not the old stuff being replacded. As such a model of the S stock was much more attractive.

 

Finally with Central Government having abolished the grant it used to give to TfL (who are now expected to self fund not just the Tube, Busses and DLR themselves but also the strategic ROAD network within the GLA area, plus the Overground via fares / advertising / property income) its not that surprising that the LT museum have tried to get generate further revenue by some amateurish renumbering of the models and slapping a higher price tag on them.

Edited May 3, 2018 by phil-b259

[jjb1970]

I can understand why they renumbered the models to promote sales, that makes eminent sense. However the only people that would notice they'd been renumbered and for whom it might matter are enthusiasts perhaps wanting more than one set. And that is the sort of customer most likely to notice and be ticked off by poor renumbering. I don't think it's good for the long term image of the LTM shop to accept renumbering of that standard to sell as a premium model.

[Steve Purves]

I'm pretty certain I read somewhere the renumbering was organised by LTM themselves and not via Bachmann. I'd be very surprised if the Barwell team got involved with renumbering old stock with all the hassle of sending it all back to China!

[jjb1970]

However, I think it is important to give credit to LTM shop for commissioning the model and to Bachmann for making such a terrific job of them as they were superbly done.

[Legend]

I think people are perhaps forgetting that railway modellers were not at the forefront of the LT museum's minds when they went and commissioned the model from Bachmann in the first place.

 

As with quite a lot of products the LT shop sells, the target audience was tourists wanting to take home a model of a ' London Underground train like what we have been riding on' during their visit.

 

The other aspect is that at the time the models were commissioned TfL was eager to promote its brand new train fleet - not the old stuff being replacded. As such a model of the S stock was much more attractive.

 

Finally with Central Government having abolished the grant it used to give to TfL (who are now expected to self fund not just the Tube, Busses and DLR themselves but also the strategic ROAD network within the GLA area, plus the Overground) via fares / advertising / property income its not that surprising that the LT museum have tried to get generate further revenue by some amateurish renumbering of the models and slapping a higher price tag on them.

Do casual tourists really buy models of tube trains at these prices ? What would they run it on , they’d need to have a layout at home . What proportion of people visiting the museum , have a layout at home , and large disposable income? Very few I’d say . Really never got the target market for this . For the model enthusiast this is way too expensive.

[phil-b259]

I can understand why they renumbered the models to promote sales, that makes eminent sense. However the only people that would notice they'd been renumbered and for whom it might matter are enthusiasts perhaps wanting more than one set. And that is the sort of customer most likely to notice and be ticked off by poor renumbering. I don't think it's good for the long term image of the LTM shop to accept renumbering of that standard to sell as a premium model.

 

Given the current financial situation at TfL (and by extension the LTM) the 'long term image' is the least of their worries.

 

Of course the other thing is if the LTM are resorting to renumbering (badly) the vehicles to try and get shot of them, it doesn't bode well as regards the prospects for further LT models

[phil-b259]

Do casual tourists really buy models of tube trains at these prices ? What would they run it on , they’d need to have a layout at home . What proportion of people visiting the museum , have a layout at home , and large disposable income? Very few I’d say . Really never got the target market for this . For the model enthusiast this is way too expensive.

 

Never under estimate the, ahem, sheer dumbness of visitors to London, particularly from the far East or North America who will happily buy up overpriced stuff as souvenirs of their trip. Most of the stuff sold by top London stores (with the exception of a few specialised pieces) is available elsewhere at a much better price.

 

For example, many years ago my sister participated in a school exchange programme with a school in the USA. We ended up with a American lad staying with us and he rather enjoyed playing one of my PC strategy games. After a trip to Hamleys he revealed he had purchased a copy of the game - despite it being far cheaper elsewhere.....

 

Thus it is not unreasonable to assume that a large quantity of the S stock sold so far is sitting in display cases, been chucked at the back of the cupboard or even thrown away by purchasers.

[Andy Y]

AFAIK, Bachmann stuck transfers over the existing ones. There's no quick and safe way of removing the old ones without damaging the paint behind. That and relabelling the boxes was worth jacking up the price of the 4 car set by £60.

 

As others have gone on to say and to ensure there is no ambiguity it must be stated that the renumbering was not carried out by Bachmann, the museum arranged this through a third party.

[JSpencer]

Do casual tourists really buy models of tube trains at these prices ? What would they run it on , they’d need to have a layout at home . What proportion of people visiting the museum , have a layout at home , and large disposable income? Very few I’d say . Really never got the target market for this . For the model enthusiast this is way too expensive.

Most were sold to people coming from China apparently.

[YesTor]

Most were sold to people coming from China apparently.

 

Oh, the irony.  Talk about 'carrying coals to Newcastle'.   

[Patrick Blake]

As others have gone on to say and to ensure there is no ambiguity it must be stated that the renumbering was not carried out by Bachmann, the museum arranged this through a third party.

This is news to me as the information I was given was different. This only raises more questions as to why the price went up by £60 and £5 for each 4 additional cars.

[PhilJ W]

This is news to me as the information I was given was different. This only raises more questions as to why the price went up by £60 and £5 for each 4 additional cars.

Most likely passing the cost onto the buyer.

[andyman7]

This is news to me as the information I was given was different. This only raises more questions as to why the price went up by £60 and £5 for each 4 additional cars.

 

 

Most likely passing the cost onto the buyer.

When initially released the price went up but the LTM seem to pretty much continuously be discounting the sets and coaches by 20% so now they are in fact cheaper to buy than the original ones. In which case the back-and-forth about how outrageous it is that they are more expensive seems a bit pointless.....

 

As to 'why an S stock train', given that the originals are going to be around for the next 35 years I think there is plenty of time to flog these. I fully predict that once they (eventually) sell out they will quickly attract a premium in exactly the same way as the originally-slow selling Triang EM2 or Hornby Dublo EMU did - being flogged off on sale right to the point that retail channels were exhausted and then almost immediately becoming sought after, on the basis that they are niche models unlikely to be repeated.

Edited May 3, 2018 by andyman7

[RJennings]

Whilst I am not convinced about the renumbering on these being 'up to standard' compared to factory done printing to me it is no more concerning than a factory fitted wonky nameplate on a £150+ model in this day and age. Likewise on some of the more complex vinyl commissions that have been done over the last few years I have to say mine are not 100% perfect and both of mine suffer from minor imperfections but these do not detract from the overall appeal to any large degree to the point I am overly bothered.

 

In terms of price lets not forget that you are in effect getting 2x powered cars (with directional lighting) and 2x trailers so based on say the current RRP of a Bachmann Class 25 for comparison sake thinking mechanically here (£109.95 approx) and a Bachmann Mk1 (£39.95 approx) that still equates to £299.80 for perhaps a like-for-like train pack setup. Add on the exclusivity / Custom tooling then even £330 does not appear to be overly expensive in reality and at the current price of a little over £270 it does feel like a little bit of a good deal in my honest opinion.

[phil-b259]

Oh, the irony.  Talk about 'carrying coals to Newcastle'. 

 

Much the same thing can be seen at Bicester Village (the station and on train announcements are in Mandarin at Bicester + Marylebone) where staff regularly end up removing designer shoeboxes etc from the bins (they are discarded so the designer hoes can be squeezed into suitcases).

Edited May 5, 2018 by phil-b259

[Ouroborus]

"designer hoes".

[Jeff Smith]

They sound expensive!

[Sir TophamHatt]

Thinking about getting one of these as, while I don't have an underground layout, I do have a secret love for the Tube.

 

£272 for a new set from LT Shop, although I seem to remember them charging more from the actual shop than online, but online you have to pay postage. However, I could get 10% off from a "welcome email" so not sure what to do.

 

Are they generally pretty nice units?

Anything that I should look out for that needs doing to the unit?

 

I've read about the dodgy renumbering. Not great on that!

 

I'd just be getting the 4 car unit.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Sir TophamHatt