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Bachmann to produce S Stock for London Transport Museum


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Thinking about getting one of these as, while I don't have an underground layout, I do have a secret love for the Tube.

 

£272 for a new set from LT Shop, although I seem to remember them charging more from the actual shop than online, but online you have to pay postage. However, I could get 10% off from a "welcome email" so not sure what to do.

 

Are they generally pretty nice units?

Anything that I should look out for that needs doing to the unit?

 

I've read about the dodgy renumbering. Not great on that!

 

I'd just be getting the 4 car unit.

Edited by Sir TophamHatt
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Thinking about getting one of these as, while I don't have an underground layout, I do have a secret love for the Tube.

 

£272 for a new set from LT Shop, although I seem to remember them charging more from the actual shop than online, but online you have to pay postage. However, I could get 10% off from a "welcome email" so not sure what to do.

 

Are they generally pretty nice units?

Anything that I should look out for that needs doing to the unit?

 

I've read about the dodgy renumbering. Not great on that!

 

I'd just be getting the 4 car unit.

Well here is a rather negative viewpoint, but maybe it will help.

 

This set is the only model I have bought new by mail order and returned for a refund because I was disappointed by the model rather than because of a manufacturing fault.

 

For me, the train seemed seriously underpowered; the arrangement of the proprietary couplers meant I could not assemble a two-car set to run on my own layout; the driving and inner coaches are different heights; and the gangway connectors are extremely rudimentary. To me, the model fails to capture the essence of the prototype, which is internally a continuous open tube. The model was contemporary with the Rapido APT-E, but in comparison it's like a toy train made up of four separate coaches. I think it was marketed to be bought by tourists not modellers.

 

I'm not trying to put you off, but maybe try to see a model before committing to buy?

 

- Richard.

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The walkthrough nature of the S Stock is quite problematic in terms of modelling as trying to replicate this and also negotiate set track curves has challenged Bachmann and that aspect of the model is a bit weak. However, other than that I really think it is an excellent model and captures the look of the S Stock very well. I like the model and would have liked to see it kick start more underground models.

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The ends of the model do look good, but the connections between units just seem wrong to me. I have a Halling model of a tram where the 'flexible concertina' connections are moulded in rigid plastic going inside the ends of the bodies and this looks quite convincing, even though it is as wrong as an air gap. If Bachmann had applied themselves to the outgoing A stock they could have made a far better model for a similar price. I'm sure it is all down to marketing - I'd buy a model of A stock as a memento, but S stock will be last longer than me. They want to sell to tourists.

 

- Richard.

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It is a nice model in many respects and brings back fond memories of a trip organised by the Museum for purchasers. The power cars are provided with an extra set of driving wheels with traction tyres, which I hate. You shouldn’t need them for a four-car unit. For eight cars, I think the train would struggle on an incline or even on tight curves.

 

Whatever the problems might have been in creating the open tube effect in model form, the lack of it is very noticeable.

 

The front of the train is lit, which produces an odd effect because the rest of it isn’t. Lighting can be added – lighting units have been designed especially for it – but in turn that looks peculiar. A fully lit and empty underground train? Of course, passengers can be added as well but these modfications all add to the cost.

 

All in all, it’s not a bad model but I feel it could have been done a lot better.

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Thinking about getting one of these as, while I don't have an underground layout, I do have a secret love for the Tube.

 

£272 for a new set from LT Shop, although I seem to remember them charging more from the actual shop than online, but online you have to pay postage. However, I could get 10% off from a "welcome email" so not sure what to do.

 

Are they generally pretty nice units?

Anything that I should look out for that needs doing to the unit?

 

I've read about the dodgy renumbering. Not great on that!

 

I'd just be getting the 4 car unit.

 

Hi

 

The S-Stock is not tube - it is the larger sub-surface stock. The trains modelled as far as I can tell are all 8-car Aldgate Metropolitan trains rather than 8-car District or 7-car Circle/Hammersmith and City.

 

Not all the cars are listed on the website, but all appear to be available from the shop. If you only want a 4-car half-length set you should not have a problem. They did have a sale on, suspect that might still be the case from the e-mails I have been getting. There is a choice of three different trains offered but all Metropolitan Aldgate trains.

 

I rather like the look of the S-Stock. I am not a regular traveller on the prototype so not really an expert on their fidelity - but they do appear to give the right impression and people like the train.

 

As to running they are a bit of a nightmare. You get two power cars in each train regardless of length. Unfortunately there is no through wiring (through power couplings have been fitted - but not wired!), and drive is just from both axles on one bogie of each power car (rather than a central motor driving all four axles as would be sensible). Pulling power is somewhat limited so the traction tyres are required for anything other than a billiard table flat layout. When fitted with DCC the power pickups are sufficiently inadequate that power loss from one end or the other happens rather too frequently and the train will stop if one of the power cars is not running.

 

As has been mentioned there is no lighting provided in the intermediate cars - but pickups are fitted! Realistically it is required to arrange some sort of through wiring from the power cars to the adjacent vehicle for adequate pickup if you want performance better than a double headed Lima!.

 

If you are going to run on track with 3rd and 4th rails fitted you will have to modify the bottom of the bogies to clear the conductor rails. Bit of a cock up really this one.

 

Provision for fitting MTC-21 decoders has been made and there is space to fit speakers in each of the power cars. Sound is available from Coastal DCC.

 

On the whole I like the S-stock. Any review like this is going to look a bit negative, but if you can sort the through wiring and the bogie undersides you will have a nice train.

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I still think they should do an unpowered version for those of us who want to model it being hauled by class 20s or 66s with barrier wagons

 

Had I not been skint last month I’d have had one of the sets in the sale to put to one side for when the layout is rebuilt and de-motorised it ready

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Still in the sale: https://www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/models/s-stock#show=5 

 

Though the model does have its quirks, it is a charming little model that can bring hours of smiles to my face. The only disappointment, well two, is that the renumbered them (I could have done a better job) and because of the time it has taken to sell surely puts off others from producing London Underground stock. As personally, I think there could be a huge market there to model it. I was told a long time ago, the ride height differences shall be ironed out in a second production run - yet I hate to think how much that would cost! Thank god it is a hobby and if I want something, I buy it! 

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"designer hoes".

I tried one of these once.

 

Although it looked very pretty, I got terrible blisters on my palms after half an hour of vigorous weeding. Perhaps my grip was wrong?

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Hi all, 

 

I would if anyone could help me please? 

 

I bought a 4 Car S Stock set in 2017 and I have also bought 20189, 20227 and 20901 in an attempt to create S Stock transfers. I am hoping to have a GBRf 20905 converted/produced and buy x2 HNRC 20311 models one to remain as 311 and the other to renumber to 314. However before I go any further in buying more locos just to create one very expensive train I have a few questions. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it. 

 

1. Does the 4 Car S Stock Set have NEM couplings on both of the driving cars at either end? If not is their a socket to fit NEMs? 

 

2. Has anyone attempted to create a train with x4 Class 20s and a 4 Car S Stock Set? If so how does this work regarding DCC and setting up the consist as to create a prototypical formation each pair of Class 20s in the train would have to run bonnet to bonnet (bonnets facing inwards on each end of the formation). Because all of the 20s would not be facing the same way and the S Stock Set has two motorised cars is it possible to get all 4 20s and a 4 Car Set running in the same direction to form the train that I am referring to? 

 

3. Do all of the S Stock cars remain attached together and remain on the rails when moving with the 20s in top and tail formation? 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

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Depending on your system it’s simple enough to get all locos running the same way, speed matching may be difficult though!

 

personally i’d De-motor the rear 20s if it’s a roundy roundly layout, similarly I’d demotor the s-stock too, when I say demotor, just remove the driveshafts (which is what I’ve done with one of my pair of Colas 67s) 

 

it’s a train I’d like to model as well, got the 20s for the job just need the underground stock which I wish I’d bought first time round! 

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Thanks for the reply Jim. It's very much appreciated. 

 

I am wondering if it will be possible to get all of the 20s and the S Stock running the correct way as the S Stock power cars will both be facing outwards in different directions and the 20s will be operating bonnet to bonnet which again I'm not sure if it will be a problem. Not fussed about the speed matching. I have tried it before but couldn't do it, but usually even if with different classes of loco together in the same consist they run well together even if the speed is slightly different between models. 

 

Yes it's a circular layout. Is removing the driveshafts simple as I have never removed any before? Also are they easy to refit if/as and when I may want to? I wonder if Bachmann provide any instructions on their website on how to do this. 

 

I was the other way around. Bought the S Stock as an impulse, must have purchase just because of how unique it is. But by the time I had bought that in January 2017 the 20s had sold out at LTM so I picked 189 up from S & J Models and 227 up a few months ago along with 901 on Ebay from different shops. I'm sure the LTM still have some four car S Stock sets, although I think that they are the renumbered sets rather than the original and I think they are £340 so considerably more expensive than the original sets. Saying that sometimes LTM have a sale on so they may appear discounted soon. If I see an offer I will let you know. 

 

Thank you in advance. 

 

 

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If you leave everything motored, spend some (tedious!) time speed-matching them all so they run nicely together.

I would suggest creating consists for the class 20s as pairs, then using consists within consists to put it all together. The S Stock simply works with the two motors on the same DCC address (no consist).

As an example:
 

2 x cl20 as consist 126.

2 x cl 20 as consist 127.

S Stock as (say) 89 for both DMs.

New consist 125 made up of 126 leading, 127 trailing, and 89 in the middle.

It sounds complicated, but allows you to separate the sets and control each 'unit consist' separately again for shunting purposes.

Edited by SRman
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A little disappointed at the drive of mine :/

The leading motor is a little noisy, especially when going round a particular curve (I'm sure it Hornby's 2nd largest, if not, the largest they do).

 

I took the conductor pieces off the middle coaches but even after 10 or so minutes of running, it seems to be a little sluggish to get going.  I almost thought the rear motor unit was trying to run backwards but dismissed that.  Might run each motor car by itself and see if one catches up with the other to see if they're properly matched.

 

Maybe it just needs running in a little more.
Perhaps some extra weight.
I'll test and see.

Edited by Sir TophamHatt
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 24/03/2019 at 22:28, SRman said:

If you leave everything motored, spend some (tedious!) time speed-matching them all so they run nicely together.

I would suggest creating consists for the class 20s as pairs, then using consists within consists to put it all together. The S Stock simply works with the two motors on the same DCC address (no consist).

As an example:
 

2 x cl20 as consist 126.

2 x cl 20 as consist 127.

S Stock as (say) 89 for both DMs.

New consist 125 made up of 126 leading, 127 trailing, and 89 in the middle.

It sounds complicated, but allows you to separate the sets and control each 'unit consist' separately again for shunting purposes.

 

Hi, 

 

Sorry for the delay in replying. Thank you for the reply, I really appreciate it. 

 

That's something that I would never have thought to do. As you say creating separate consists would enable me to control the 20s in pairs and S Stock separately when shunting, creating the formation and when changing the locos/stock/formation etc. 

 

With this in mind I will definitely have a 20905 produced and buy x2 20311 models, with one to remain as 311 and the other to become 314 when released so that then I have six 20s and the S Stock, meaning that I have a spare pair of 20s to swop out for maintenance etc alike the real life locos are. 

 

Thank you again for the reply and the information. 

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Use good quality decoders for this that support advanced consisting, so you get consistent (no pun intended!) behaviour no matter what DCC system you use.

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5 minutes ago, SRman said:

Use good quality decoders for this that support advanced consisting, so you get consistent (no pun intended!) behaviour no matter what DCC system you use.

 

Thank you for the reply. I use Bachmann DCC Decoders for all of my locos except Dapol Class 68s of which I use Imperium Decoders to support the wealth of functions. 

 

Would you say that 8 Pin and 21 Pin Bachmann Decoders are appropriate for the Class 20s and S Stock?

 

Thank you in advance. 

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The latest Bachmann-branded ESU and Zimo decoders Bachmann use now are good, but be a little careful of some earlier ones. The 36-557 Soundtraxx ones that preceded the ESU with the same catalogue number were a bit less consistent in behaviour (thanks, Bachmann for confusing everyone with the same catalogue number for two entirely different products!).

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On 05/04/2019 at 05:49, SRman said:

The latest Bachmann-branded ESU and Zimo decoders Bachmann use now are good, but be a little careful of some earlier ones. The 36-557 Soundtraxx ones that preceded the ESU with the same catalogue number were a bit less consistent in behaviour (thanks, Bachmann for confusing everyone with the same catalogue number for two entirely different products!).

 

Thank you for the reply. 

 

I think I know what you mean. Some of the older Bachmann 21 Pin Decoders I was using a few years ago didn't support consists when I bought a DCC Controller, which then lead to me having to replace several old decoders with new ones, which was quite a costly exercise. How do you know which are the ESU Bachmann decoders? As you say what makes it more confusing is that the same catalogue number is used for a completely different product. Actually I have used Zimo decoders before for a few locos and they are quite good. Good to know that I have the option of Bachmann ESU or Zimo. Which would say of the two are best? Because then I will buy those. 

 

Thank you in advance. 

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On 18/03/2019 at 17:50, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

Hi all, 

 

I would if anyone could help me please? 

 

I bought a 4 Car S Stock set in 2017 and I have also bought 20189, 20227 and 20901 in an attempt to create S Stock transfers. I am hoping to have a GBRf 20905 converted/produced and buy x2 HNRC 20311 models one to remain as 311 and the other to renumber to 314. However before I go any further in buying more locos just to create one very expensive train I have a few questions. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it. 

 

1. Does the 4 Car S Stock Set have NEM couplings on both of the driving cars at either end? If not is their a socket to fit NEMs? 

 

2. Has anyone attempted to create a train with x4 Class 20s and a 4 Car S Stock Set? If so how does this work regarding DCC and setting up the consist as to create a prototypical formation each pair of Class 20s in the train would have to run bonnet to bonnet (bonnets facing inwards on each end of the formation). Because all of the 20s would not be facing the same way and the S Stock Set has two motorised cars is it possible to get all 4 20s and a 4 Car Set running in the same direction to form the train that I am referring to? 

 

3. Do all of the S Stock cars remain attached together and remain on the rails when moving with the 20s in top and tail formation? 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Remember that you'll need ex-TEA barrier bagons in the train - if the S-Stock doesn't have NEM pockets, you can use the TEAs as coupling converters to the S-stock

 

If I was creating a train such as above and wasn't doing any uncoupling or reversing, then I'd remove the driveshaftand/or motors from all except the lead 20s.

 

Cheers,

Mick

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2 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Remember that you'll need ex-TEA barrier bagons in the train - if the S-Stock doesn't have NEM pockets, you can use the TEAs as coupling converters to the S-stock

 

If I was creating a train such as above and wasn't doing any uncoupling or reversing, then I'd remove the driveshaftand/or motors from all except the lead 20s.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Hi Mick, 

 

Thank you for the reply. I almost forgot about the TEA wagons. 

 

Yes it's definitely something that I will look into and consider regarding the driveshafts. I have never attempted to create such a lengthy and complex formation before so I am very lucky to have the advice of you and others on here to help me. 

 

I'm looking forward to the Bachmann 20/3s when they arrive. 

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The 20's and their barrier TEA tank wagons are still quite regular sights at Ruislip Depot.  I captured them minus S Stock in September 2012:

 

gallery_101_1319_26733.jpg

 

If you're modelling more recent transfer moves then the new signalling system radio antennas will need to be added on either side of the destination box.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

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