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Ilkley locomotive shed, 4mm P4 1950s


Jub45565
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I’ve been faffling around with P4 for several years now, & still don’t have much ‘finished’. This is mainly due to the lack of a layout to kick me into getting things over those final hurdles. I did at one stage have a bit of a test track going on, but I didn’t have anywhere to house it at 10ft long and having to put it up and down each time just meant I didn’t progress with it.

 

My current thoughts were kickstarted by a topic on the Scalefour society forum where, last summer, the Bristol group had aims to encourage people to model a 4ft x 18 inch standalone layout (labelled the GOYA project) – and I wondered whether I could find something suitable to fit the bill… this is slightly larger.

 

Ilkley shed would really need a minimum of 10 foot to do ‘properly’, but I think I can make a reasonable representation within 6ft x 18inches. I would do this across 2 3ft x 18inch boards, though I do have an alcove available in which it could ‘permanently’ live. 6 foot in my mind is too big for a single board, and having the join would also allow me to experiment with detailing and scenery across a board joint.

 

(While Keighley or Manningham sheds would be more suitable for the stock I am building, Ilkley looks far more operationally interesting within the space I have available – and at the end of the day all were under the 55F umbrella after 1957).

 

It also looks like Gordon A has already had 3ft x 18 inch laser cut boards produced locally, so I will pick his brains about this next Tuesday!:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72708-laser-cut-baseboards/

 

Wikipedia tells me that the turntable at Ilkley was 50’, and LRM have a Cowans Sheldon 50’ offering. It was a Cowans Sheldon product that was installed at Garsdale/Hawes junction, so I am assuming the Ilkley one to have been from the same source, though I have not been able to clarify that as yet. There is a photo of it here:

 

http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/historic/fws083.jpg

 

Comparing photos of the Garsdale one to Ilkley they look to have the same family resemblance. Albeit looking at photos of the Garsdale one in its current location at Keighley as it is rather easier to look at without a wall of sleepers surrounding it!

 

Also needed would be the locomotive shed itself… As this would be ‘in the style of’ rather than an exact replica of Ilkley, I would be happy to compromise on a similar building (if not exactly the same) if one was available. Having looked at the Hornby and Bachmann resin offerings, and townstreet casting, I cannot see anything close so would have to attack plastikard sheeting for this I think.

 

http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/historic/fws073.jpg

 

The full length of the shed would not be modelled – probably only about 1 foot, though I need to have a play and see quite how I can joggle things to fit while keeping the atmosphere/theme looking ok.

 

I will have a play around in Templot (sometime soon hopefully :-S) to clarify whether what I am thinking will actually fit in the footprint.

 

The only thing that I don’t think I can incorporate into this would be any test sample of flat bottom track. It partially depends on whether I can fit in half the mainline across the front/back, though even so Ilkley was not flat bottomed until well after the shed closed in 1959.

 

This project would also really cry out for a Stanier 3P 2-6-2, of which the only kit I am aware is the Nucast one though according to Sherwood models website they are not currently available (Nucast was the small boiler, and I've seen photos of both types in the mid 50s in Ilkley so depending on the quality (overall dimensional accuracy mainly) the Nucast kit might be a reasonable starting point. I need to crack on and finish my lemon 0-4-4 first though!!

 

I will go through my library and put up a bit of a bibliography so that if anyone is aware of any useful tome they will be able to see what I already have...

 

I was going to wait before posting this as a new topic, but this seems long enough already for an initial post so I have decided to unleash it!

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A bit more info:

 

post-130-0-00672700-1433403712.png

 

A – double track main line, Ilkley station off stage on the left hand side.

B – 50 foot turntable – as in post 1 I think a kit is available for this.

C – 2 road brick engine shed, photo linked in post 1. Pits both inside and out the front. Not aware of anything on the market suitable.

D – 2 coaling roads

E - headshunt

F – Crossover feeding in from the mainline.  The siding continues on and was to supply the brewery, though a 1934 map shows this as being disused which unfortunately rules out a bit of shunting appropriate wagons in and out!

 

Points:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5

These are located as per the prototype.  My plan would be to move point 3 to feed off between 1 and 2 rather than 1 and 4.  This way points 4 and 5 move left and help bring the overall dimensions within a 6 foot length.  The 2 shed roads would feed out through the backscene, but I would want the headsunt ( E ) fully within the scenic area.

 

Undecided whether any, either or both of the main running lines would be included – I need to see what it all looks like in Templot.

 

This scheme does mean the sand dryer etc would be off stage, but I think I can handle that without ruining the look.  That would be preferable to overly compressing everything and bringing it forward.  I’m not sure whether I would run the coaling roads off stage or just truncate them early – moving the coaling stage a bit forward of the shed to compensate.

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A new purchase for £4.30 including postage was the following book, which has several good photos of the shed area:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1871944066?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

This, alongside the section in LMS Engine sheds volume 2 (ex-Midland), are the most useful references I have.

 

The only thing for which I am lacking any photo of now is the water tower which stood by the turntable.

 

I have also found another purveyor of 50' Cowans & Sheldon turntables, so will need to decide whether to go for this or the London Road Models version:

http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/4mm_scale_00_EM_P4.htm

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The 60ft Metalsmiths turntable has I believe been available for some time.  The others have been "to follow" for some time as well.  Unless your project has a very long gestation period (some do - look at mine!) I would be tempted to go for the London Road one.

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Thanks Alastair - I hadn't seen that shed.  To my eyes unfortunately it isn't quite close enough, in that the detail above the doors, and the double sets of windows down the side, do stand out.  However for £5 it could be a useful 'short term' (!) prop to set the scene.

 

I have come across Edmund Kinder's layout Grisedale, both via his website and on here - his shed is based on Hellifield but very much in the theme I am after, and he has very kindly supplied me with some very useful drawings and photos of the build.

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So, I've had a quick play in templot, and these are the results:

 

post-130-0-53697500-1433958900_thumb.png

 

The templot version was made purposely over length at both ends to allow me to play with the location of the turntable, and see how everything fitted.  2 of the follow photos are now quite small after cropping the largest length to 800, I will have another go if they are really feeble on screen...

 

The marker pen lines are the overall 6' length, loco shed outline, pits, off scene connection to the mainline, and the board joint.  A nice pair of 3' boards would not be impossible - none of the moving point parts are over the joint, but it would be quite messy - however moving it would create a set of boards 1 of which would be 2'4.5" and the other 3'7.5" - something for me to ponder over...

 

As sketched, the pits outside the shed are fractionally over 1'. while the shed is fractionally under 1'.

 

Track spacings need sorting out - currently the 2 shed roads are at 45mm centres, and if the track plan of the prototype can be followed I need 70mm.  I need room for a yard lamp outside the shed!

 

The 2 coaling roads are also far too close together to get the coaling stage in.  There are a few options of how I could fix this... 

a. - There is a bit of slack before the point I could remove, and make tighter curves into and out of those stabling roads.

b - cut it down to 1 coaling road.  I'm not sure how I would do this without altering the look somewhat - either the double sided coaling stage would be modified to be single sided, or would be between the coaling road and the shed road.

c - take the coaling roads back much closer to the turntable, and convert the first point off the turntable into a 3 way.

My line of attack in order of preference is 1, c, b...

 

Currently the prints outs have been on landscape A3 taped together, so the overall width is 16.5"

 

post-130-0-80540000-1433958895.jpg

 

post-130-0-16207700-1433958898.jpg

 

post-130-0-44169500-1433958890.jpg

 

post-130-0-91964700-1433958899.jpg

 

 

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Oh, and while I have kept a Fairburn length between the turntable and the first point, I have all but lost the spur beyond the turntable.  This had a water tower next to it, but I don't know whether locos ran up there to take on water, or whether they did that in the station platform roads?  I havent as yet found any photos of the water tower, or any water cranes in the loco shed area.

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There was a 4mm (OO IIRC) model of Ilkley Station and Shed in the Railway Modeller in the late 70s - 1977/78-ish, I think. Might provide some help with water tower & other structures. I'm long parted from my RMs of that era, so I'm sorry I can't be more precise..

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I have had another play with templot, and updated the track spacings to 70mm.  This is looking much better, and option a for the coaling roads looks to have sufficed!

 

 

 

post-130-0-30563900-1434056577.jpg

 

I have drawn on the dimensions from the scalescenes shed for the time being.

 

I am now satisfied that this project is a goer!  As with any shed, there isnt a whole load of operating potential - but at least it is several moves to even get off shed! - but it will serve my purpose of being able to be left fully up, and allow me to experiment with point mechanisms, scenery options, etc, rather than waiting another 10 years and plowing straight in with an overly ambitious layout!

 

Only pondering point left is whether I want to attempt to put the board joint right down the middle.  It is perfectly possible, all being fixed bits of pointwork and the moving blades well away so can be properly anchored, but it might be asking for trouble with any slight discrepancy on alighment.  Any thoughts on this? (or anything else?!)

post-130-0-04569700-1434056598.jpg

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Split the points anywhere you like as long it's not within 2 sleepers or so of the blades or in the crossing. I've been doing this for many years on several layouts without any alignment problems - just cut one on the new fiddle yard yesterday - see my Herculaneum Dock thread.

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Thanks Mike, I think I will go for the straight down the middle option. It would be good to know whether I can get it to all work faultlessly over the joint (who knows what I might want to attempt in the future), and in this instance if it really doesn't work then I could permanently attach the two together as a 6 foot unit.  I have no issues with dabbling with the odd risk involved, but I do like to know there is a way to salvage it if it goes belly up!

 

I wouldn't say I have OCD, but I'm pretty sure an offset joint would get to me too  :scratchhead:  :O - when the two were apart at any rate.

 

I had missed your thread - the problem with so much going on on here these days... - now on the followed list!

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I think the only thing that I am yet to divuldge is that all the points are B7 except one, which is between the 2 coaling roads, and that is a B6.

 

Also, the yellow tape measure in post 12 can be seen to be at an angle. This was done deliberately with the view to that being the straight edge of the layout, which would bring the turntable a bit closer to the front and allow a bit more room behind for the 'fiddleyard'.  I will probably allow for a cassette.

 

Once I have clarified what the water tower fed, and what it looked like, I can decide whether to model part of it beyond the turntable, or move it to the shed side of the table.

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Hi Pete,

 

My 3ft x 18" baseboards were CNC cut by company behind Avon Ply in Salford.

 

It must have been a quiet day. I had to explain what I meant by tab and slot construction.

 

Not cheap but very accurate cutting.

 

Gordon A

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Hi Gordon, thanks for that. I'm not sure whether to get it cut or do it myself, but am tempted to get it done with greater precision that they can achieve - & probably quicker turnaround...
One thing that would really tip it in their favour - as long as it isn't a silly price - would be if they could also cut openings for the turntable & possibly pits.
 

edited to remove duplication... for which I'm blaming the mobile site!

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Hi Pete,

 

If I remember I will bring one of my boards to Tim's next week

 

There a number of different business that will laser / cnc cut base boards for you.

 

In our research for the Goya boards they were all fairly close.

 

If you have CAD skills or know some one who has you can save money by drawing your own design.

 

Gordon

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  • 4 weeks later...

The progress has been with ordering, receiving and constructing plywood laser cut baseboards from Grainge and Hodder:

 

http://www.graingeandhodder.co.uk/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

 

If designing my own I would have sorted out the backscene, lid and front at the same time - but the cost of these looked worth a punt, and far more likely to get me moving sometime this decade!

 

So I now have 2 baseboards, each 900mm x 400mm.

 

The plywood as supplied is a bit droopy, and the slots and tabs are not an interference fit, so I weighted them with books for a few days to try and flatten them, and then glued them together.  The instructions recommend glue and pins, but the few pins I tried kept failing to stay within the mating piece of 6mm ply so I will see how they go for now.  There will probably be extra bits screwed on as I build the boxes anyway, which I will get to...

 

But first, here they are:

The first two show that they do slot together, but do not hold themselves as a baseboard:

 

post-130-0-86971200-1437067377_thumb.jpg

 

post-130-0-12634300-1437067382_thumb.jpg

 

Then we have the current progress - both boards built:

 

post-130-0-95929500-1437067383.jpg

 

post-130-0-80134600-1437067385.jpg

 

These still have remnants of kitchen paper on them, use to protect the books used to weight/clamp them during the gluing process, so the next job is to clean them up.  I will then add the alignment dowels and toggle catches, and in some ways I will then be ready to put some cork down and start laying track! However, before I do, I want to finish the structures as per the following image:

 

post-130-0-26792800-1437067386.png

 

The red box is a cross section of the baseboards as they are, end on.

This will then have a fixed backscene, as shown in black.

The blue section is the lid, with 2 bracing batons.  This will be hinged from the backscene, and would allow it to fold fully back on itself if required (in my setup as shown above, it will lean against the wall, with something to stop it falling back).

The green section shows the front, which will hinge down and would allow for layout info to be shown, should I ever get this to an exhibitable state...

 

So that's the plan, now I need to formulate the hinge arrangement to make it happen, and look tidy when both in use and when away.  I also need to work out a catch arrangement for the blue/green interface.  I wont really want to have to screw/unscrew it to use it, but I dont really want toggle catches there unless I can find some nice black ones to hide.

 

I want it boxed for a few reasons - firstly it keeps the dust off, and secondly it creates their own travelling boxes should they go anywhere, and thirdly these are currently sat in the corner of my bedroom (and will be until my housemates get the hint and get their own houses!) so it isn't always appropriate.

 

So there we are with current progress - and having got my Ultrascales I am currently trying to move along with the 2P too!

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