Quarryscapes Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 And boy what a headache these are going to give me! I managed to acquire from eBay a pair of unbuilt etches and some fittings for two Sharp Stewart 0-6-0 goods locos, the lovely 'standard' sort where nothing is actually the same between two locos! So the plan...is there one? Well lets see what we've got first then we'll decide on some prototypes! Comparison shows that there has been a revision in the etches, although the bias is still firmly towards Furness locomotives (as evdidenced by the tender only being Furness pattern, and the plethora of Furness number plates). Notice the upper fret has very different footplating, the lower one will only build original boiler locos with the open cylinder fronts, the upper one will only suit rebuilt locos with the raised boiler pitch and closed over cylinder fronts. This suits me somewhat as I wanted to do an early condition and late condition one. The tenders appear identical, but actually have different rivet patterns on the body. As do the parts below the footplate: With the exception of one kit also including brakes for the loco: (as built only the tender was braked) So then decision time! What to build? History lesson time! The Furness tender limits matters to one of the 3 ex Furness locos that appeared on the Cambrian, No. 18, 48 or 49. I'm leaning towards one of the latter in early condition, perhaps even running in Mid Wales Railway guise. I have not seen an early picture of No. 18 to see whether it had the same Furness stylings, later pics show it to have the other type of valance fitted so perhaps it did not also have the ornate tender frame. There is no valance provided for any of the early Cambrian locos which is a shame, I'd have liked to have a named loco but never mind - I may yet scratchbuild another!So for the rebuilt one... well 15 was the first to be rebuilt with the new boiler and also had the ornate valance and no loco brakes, but was also withdrawn early, I'd like to have this one running up til grouping and have a 6 wheel tender, so I'm leaning towards No. 1. We shall see. I think a table of detail differences is required! Anything else? Yes. I have yet to mention drive. Being a small loco there is not a lot of room in the boiler for anything but a tiddly motor, and even that would waste so much space adequate weighting would be all but impossible. So, I'm sticking a Bull Ant in the 4 wheel Tender initially, with Mashima 1024, flywheel and 60:1 gearing it will crawl along. There's plenty of room either side of the unit to stick some nice slabs of lead, the locomotive is then free to house the decoder. Loco wheels will be Ultrascale GWR 4' 7.5" ones - 1.5" too big or 0.5mm Diameter. This should not be a problem as by using Ultrascale's EM profile wheels the flanges are reduced enough so that the overall diameter is the same as for the correct 4'6" wheels in 00 profile. The Bull Ant comes with 14mm Romford RP25 wheels which although not what I would like ideally will do the job. That's enough waffling for now I think, I'm off to decide which parts I need from the frets and how much more I need to do myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Ahh! So it's you who outbid me then Alan! Seriously though, I will follow this with interest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Sorry Martin, Having missed out on one ages ago that went for over £100 and being unable to get a reply from Kemilway about getting new ones, I wasn't going to miss out on these two! The Seller Richard Evans has been a godsend too, he's given me copies of various articles on the locos and even a copy of a General Arrangement for the rebuilt locos. He's also doing his own range of Cambrian coaches so may well be worth getting in touch with him on that front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Some more theory before putting tool to metal: Cut out required in tender base for Bullant: And just in case any more proof was needed that the class = a headache, here is a collated table of differences between locomotives over the years, and this is discounting the 5 different tenders that could be attached! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The tender is good for the Mid Wales Railway version. The cab is massively over-scale and a scratch-built replacement will need making. I've been failing to pluck up enough courage to start mine for a while. I was intending to use Gibson's 1mm milled brass frames until I ran a ruler over them a few weeks ago and realised they are hopelessly inaccurate, so a scratchbuilt chassis beckons. I had planned to put the motor in the tender with a driveshaft through to the loco, but I've not tried anything like that before and I suspect this might be the wrong loco for a step into unfamiliar territory. It goes without saying that this is one thread that will be followed with considerable interest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I have a friend (Tudor Watkins) who has built one of these - a major challenge and as stated above requiring some scratchbuilding to get it right. The result though is delightful. It appeared quite a few times at exhibitions on Sandy Croall's Penlan layout so there may be some images of it somewhere on RMWeb or on images from exhibitions such as Aylesbury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Hmm, so the cab top half is fine (which is only needed on some locos) but the waist sheets are totally wrong, which are needed for all locos. Hmm. The Furness ones are slightly better than the Cambrian ones too. I'm using less and less of this kit as the day goes by! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The very best of British ... Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 PDF Link to the above table, expanded a little to include the M&M locos.Bull Ant ordered, Started work designing the new cab. Found our I have run out of piercing saw blades so more of them on order before I chop out the hole for the Bull Ant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks to your detective work, I now realise that I've got the early-version-only etches. Inevitably, I wanted to build the later version with the higher pitched, Beaconsfield boiler. At this rate, about all I'll be using of the kit are the valances! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 ... I have run out of piercing saw blades so more of them on order before I chop out the hole for the Bull Ant. Some forty years ago I earwigged a conversation between a modeller and Mike Sharman at an MK exhibition. The upshot was that MS never used piercing saws because he found, as I have always done, that they snagged and bent the workpiece. His solution was to drill several holes at convenient locations and then to use a round swiss file to remove the unwanted material. Then to clean up with other files as appropriate. I put away my piercing saw and it hasn't been used since! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It is possible to build the Peter K 'Sharpie', but be prepared to remake a lot of the kit - here's my FR version from a few years ago. It is an absolute pig of a kit and I replaced the chassis and used a High Level gearbox with the ubiquitous Mashima 1220. Best of British with your Cambrian versions ! [NB I've finally reversed the photograph !] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 How's this? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks - I'd just worked out how to do it but you've saved me the bother ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks to your detective work, I now realise that I've got the early-version-only etches. Inevitably, I wanted to build the later version with the higher pitched, Beaconsfield boiler. At this rate, about all I'll be using of the kit are the valances! Looking at the etches it seems that the boiler pitch is (incorrectly) identical between both versions, though I haven't got the ruler out to measure yet. It is possible to build the Peter K 'Sharpie', but be prepared to remake a lot of the kit - here's my FR version from a few years ago. It is an absolute pig of a kit and I replaced the chassis and used a High Level gearbox with the ubiquitous Mashima 1220. Best of British with your Cambrian versions ! (As usual, apologies for the reversed photograph taken with a MacBook) Looks very good - though the over length waist sheet is glaringly obvious. Where did you get those coupling rods from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Some forty years ago I earwigged a conversation between a modeller and Mike Sharman at an MK exhibition. The upshot was that MS never used piercing saws because he found, as I have always done, that they snagged and bent the workpiece. His solution was to drill several holes at convenient locations and then to use a round swiss file to remove the unwanted material. Then to clean up with other files as appropriate. I put away my piercing saw and it hasn't been used since! Regards I've been known to do that too, but generally only on plastic as it takes too long filing metal! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2015 headache inducing twins you say......... going by the title i thought you were making either these....... or these....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 though I haven't got the ruler out to measure yet. When you get your ruler out, check the footplate length. I was told it was too long and would need shortening, but when I checked I found it was only about half a millimetre adrift, which I didn't feel was enough to worry about. However, when I mentioned that to my source of information he was adamant that the error is somewhat bigger than that. Second opinion required! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thanks , but there was bit of a compromise in the coupling rod dept as I used Alan Gibson 'universal' rods. I know they should be round section but when I built this one, I didn't reckon I could make durable rods to the necessary level of precision for good running (my engines have to run well and I'll accept compromises such as Romford wheels in order to get a robust chassis and 'American' pick-up on tender engines). Looking at the etches it seems that the boiler pitch is (incorrectly) identical between both versions, though I haven't got the ruler out to measure yet.Looks very good - though the over length waist sheet is glaringly obvious. Where did you get those coupling rods from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Sorry Martin, Having missed out on one ages ago that went for over £100 and being unable to get a reply from Kemilway about getting new ones..... It does reinforce the feeling that Kemilway / Peter K are pretty much dormant now. ....I'm using less and less of this kit as the day goes by! I think this is why they say some of these kits are a good "aid to scratchbuilding"..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_ellinson Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I was tempted by one of these, to build the mid wales rly version. i shall watch with interest.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Thanks to your detective work, I now realise that I've got the early-version-only etches. Inevitably, I wanted to build the later version with the higher pitched, Beaconsfield boiler. At this rate, about all I'll be using of the kit are the valances! Looks like that's about all I'll be using too! I'm seriously considering abandoning these kits and doing the lot from scratch (or my own etches at least). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I, for one, would be more than interested in buying any extra sets of etches you might produce! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 It turned out that with the 60:1 gearbox option the Bull Ant won't fit in the Furness tender, all the drawings on the Hollywood foundry site pertain to the slimmer 30ish:1 boxes (which would fit as in my above sketch) . I've had it running and it is a very noisy little thing too, so maybe a redesign with loco drive will be needed for the 2nd loco (which will get a 6wheel tender) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 I, for one, would be more than interested in buying any extra sets of etches you might produce! There will be plenty to go round, I'll be investigating making a cast boiler as well. I first drew the CAD for a chassis in 2007, updating it is proving tricky. I'm currently trying to sort out articulating the rods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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