starting with this old video on youtube which I still remember watching 10+ years ago, it shows a nice effect of seeing a Class 313 in either each direction doing the changeover with the tunnel portal being out of frame to the left in the meanwhile

or much more recent find is this interesting LBSCR-dated train running on a long section of dual-electrification out in the pre-Sutton countryside;

So I don't understand why there is such a gap in the market as far as AC EMUs are concerned. Is it because companies are too afraid to make the "leap" in case the product fails, or is there another reason?

I’ve also been reading the instructions here for fitting wiring to Sommerfeldt masts. It seems surprisingly straightforward for bow collectors and pantographs (which I will be using) although possibly a bit fiddly to solder given that the masts presumably have to already be in situ on the layout. However, is this method (with the individual pieces of wire) suitable for live overhead, as opposed to cosmetic with 2 rail operation?

Is power factor correction equipment installed in railway feeder stations?

And what sort of power factor does something like an AC electric loco work at when running on part load?

  I have attached an action camera to the rooftop to show live pantograph action.

Please do check out my video.

Much of the information will be historic as my own interests do not go much beyond the 1980s so I welcome any information on newer systems.

Plain track

I will describe the overhead wiring for a section of plain track without any point work, bridges, stations etc.

Stagger.

The wires on plain track are held above the line normally by cantilever mast, arranged so that the contact wire zigzags as it goes along. This is called stagger, and is arranged in this fashion to create even ware on the pantograph of the locomotives and multiple units.  The cantilever mast are positioned opposite each other on twin track, there is a push off assembly which holds the contact wire away from the centre line towards the centre of the two tracks. Above the other track is a pull off assembly that pulls the contact wire towards the outside of the track. The distance from the centre line of the track and the position of the contact wire at the registration point (where it is held by the mast) is 9ins for Mk1 OHLE and 230mm for Mk3. If working in 4mm scale this is 3mm.

Contact Wire Height.

With Mk3 equipment the contact wire height is 4.7m, slightly lower than Mk1 which is 16ft or 4.864m. This height can vary where there are level crossings, over bridges, depots and yards.  With early overhead schemes the height was greater in station areas as well. All these variations will be covered later.

This photo shows the stagger. Note the alternative use of push-off and pull-off mast. This is non-typical Mk1 cantilever mast using round post as found on the Chelmsford to Colchester section of the GE line. Photo taken on a level crossing at Kelvedon.

Mast Spacing

The distance between each mast is called the span. Masts are spaced the maximum distance apart where possible. The maximum design span is 73m (958mm in 4mm scale),and the minimum is 13m (170mm in 4mm scale). Were mast are of unequal distance apart the difference between them must not be over 20m (262mm).  There are many governing factors, which determine the distance for each span, these include the physical layout of the railway, where the points and junctions are, over bridges, under bridges and viaducts, stations, signals, gradients etc. Another important factor on the real railway is side wind, not a problem with model railways but one worth considering if you are modelling a line going across exposed fells or the fens. When the span is being calculated the “blow off”, sideways displacement of the contact wire due to strong wind should not allow the wire to go outside the pantograph sweep and the two loose contact with each other.  So in areas of high cross winds the spans are reduced in length.

Types of Overhead

Fixed Termination Equipment

This is found on older systems like the GER suburban lines and where wire runs are short, e.g. terminus stations. The contact wire is pre tensioned and is supported either end by heavy anchor mast.  This type of equipment is preferred on tight curved track as balanced weighted equipment cannot overcome the loads imposed by drag from the pantograph.  

Automatic Tensioned Equipment

This more commonly found and uses balance weights each end to keep the tension preventing the contact wire from moving out of place due to temperature changes, wind, and displacement by the pantograph of a moving train. In the centre of each length of wire is an anchor point, without this the wire would creep towards one balance weight due to being pulled along by the pantograph.

Tension Length and Number of Mast

On automatic tensioned equipment the maximum length is 1970m, from the anchor mast in the centre to each overlap at the ends there should be 14 masts. Where the mast are closer than this the wire length is shorter, the number of mast is the governing factor not the length of wire run until 1970m is reached. Crossovers, sidings, loops etc have shorter lengths with less than 14 masts from anchor point to balance weight.

The distance between the overlaps on the GER suburban lines is approximately 1 mile. There are 28 masts from one end to the other. Due to the contact wire being fixed at each end there is no need for a mid point anchor.

Mk1 and Mk3 mainly used cantilevers on single and double line plain track. The older 1500v DC systems of the GER and Woodhead route used portals.

Using the above information if your model layout has no points, obstructions etc and the track is straight then provided the number of mast is less than 14 the overhead will be cantilevers set as to give a stagger spaced at a maximum of a scale 73m.  Most model railways are not that simple, we like our stations with their sidings, loops etc. We also like bridges and tunnels, and most of us have sections of curved track.

Even if the layout was just a section of plain twin track how nice it would be to model a mid point anchor, or an overlap or even a feeder station.

Anyway, the problem relates to the sideways movement of the traverser. On real traversers they seem to drop the pantograph while the traverser is being moved sideways, then raise it again once in the new position, with a separate overhead wire over each track (so the wire doesn’t have to move with the traverser deck). Dropping the pantograph every time doesn’t seem very practical on a model, and I don’t particularly like the idea of a section of wire (or solid overhead conductor) that moves with the traverser deck either (too much precise alignment of switches, joins etc.).
 

However, I can’t just de-wire the pantograph in between because it will spring up and then need pushing back down; I need to keep it at the same height as when it’s under the wires. The obvious solution seems to be a flat metal sheet or mesh so that the sprung pantograph is always kept under the wire height, even when the traverser deck is being moved sideways. So my question is: is this is likely to scrape and damage the pantograph? It seems as though there could be problems because, while the pantograph is designed to be scraped by the overhead wire, this is usually by a thin wire running parallel to the track the loco is on, not by a flat sheet at right angles to it.

OK - I'm thinking I am a bit thick on this one!

I cannot find the right drawings in Clives collection - even though I know they were there at some point.

Anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Phil H

I have seen this newer style of OHLE masts appearing in various places, the example I have here is between Glasgow and Edinburgh (apologies for the Street view screenshot).

Is this replacing older OHLE or is it for newer projects?

Cheers, James

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/history/gallery/old-photos-electric-trains-system-13228710

I'm currently building an N gauge layout based on a 'what might have been' line linking the Cathcart Circle through Glasgow to Queen Street High Level with ohle so I can run cl303 emus.

I've seen the postings by Clive Mortimer, and very useful they've been, but, as I have a double junction and a passing loop, I want to know the arrangement of the register arms in these locations, both for single post and portals, over the point work, all lines being electrified.

I’m in the early stages of layout planning including actually nailing down what it is I want to achieve. but one aim is to create a realistic four-track electrified WCML layout based somewhere between Warrington and Stafford.

It will be 4mm or OOSF Gauge trackwork and having read the excellent Ravensclyffe thread I’m looking at using the NBrass OHL structures. It will obviously be some time before I get to the OHL itself, but is there anything when planning the four-track countryside section, crossovers or station layout that I need to give thought to? Ie are there any OHL items or tips that I need to consider with the track plan?

The layout will be around 20’ x 10’ in size, is permanent, not portable and the fiddle yards will not be electrified so I need to find some way to introduce the pans onto/off of the OHL. It’s also set mid-1980s if that affects anything.

Any pointers or thoughts to consider would be welcome.

Cheers

Richie

I have drawings and photos from Clive of the one at Headstone Lane but only the one side.

Then I found this one https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9465241,-2.2741915,3a,75y,283.53h,61.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spp46aaGqrg9LgGoODN1igA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Do they all have the four doors on the side away from the track? I'm really struggling to find other photos of the non-track side.  

Anyone able to help please?

Andi

Does anyone know why? And are there any others anywhere?

Andi

In addition all up trains will not call at Hitchin and will pass through, bang road, up direction on the down fast. Trains will set back from the up fast at Biggleswade onto the down fast and run bang road to Stevenage. It is rather odd seeing the four aspect signals in this section start at green and work their way back to red as the train approaches..

However two of the tiny coil springs that hold the pan level simply vanished..

(Well they seemed to..)

They are black and about 1.5 to 2.0 mm in length...

So looking for them is proving difficult and so far no luck -

I think they must have flown into a black hole or another universe..

The question is - does anyone know where one can get replacement springs..?

I have fruitlessly searched the web and I am hoping someone has had a similar problem and managed to solve it.

Of course if I do manage to obtain some replacements -

How do I get them back on the Pantograph?

P.S. I looked for a suitable topic to post this question -

If it does not fit here - any suggestions as to where?

I have a drawing G/116 of the Wire carrying wagon, that was attached to the LMR Diesel Twin Mobile Workshop. This was used on the MSJ&A Line, converted from the LMS articulated diesel unit. 

It is noted on the drawing by FJ Roche that the accompanying Drawing was in the 'P' series. Has anyone a copy of the drawing?

Network Rail’s obligation

Our obligation, to be confirmed by DfT, is to develop the scope of works described below to completion of GRIP Stage 2.

Scope of works

A client remit has been produced detailing the scope required for this project. This includes AC overhead electrification and associated power supplies / distribution for the following routes, including all running lines and crossovers (except where indicated):

· Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge Junction; · Guide Bridge West Junction to Copley Hill East Junction via Huddersfield; · Neville Hill West Junction to Colton Junction; · Micklefield Junction to Selby Station; · Ashburys West Junction to Philips Park Junction/Baguley Fold Junction; · Guide Bridge Station Junction to Heaton Norris Junction; · Selby Station to Hulll; and · a number of further add-on options will be examined/costed up in addition to those noted above.

Other works will include signalling immunisation, track lowering and bridge reconstructions on the above routes.

Atlas Editions, who have produced some series for the UK market (buses / fire engines / trams) have been producing at least three different series of continental railway items to HO scale (some have been narrow gauge).  The ones I have come across are “Trams”, “Michelines et Autorails” (Diesel railcars) and “Automotrices des Reseaux Français” (Motor coaches). To my eyes these are not mere clones as some I never even knew existed, although others, like the Picasso railcar, have been made before.  Each is a superbly moulded (in plastic) and well finished entirely new model, in a nice presentation case on a length of suitably gauged track.  I have been finding them on eBay, mainly from the Far East, for less than £20, and they are much more complete items than the GBL locos. 

I don’t know how easy the trams are to motorise as I have only acquired an exquisite steam tram plus carriage, but the other ranges have fully moulded interiors with the areas over the bogies obligingly raised, and looking ideal for motorising with a SPUD or similar unit.  On one French website, the only modifications a person had to make, apart from motorising it, was to substitute the plastic pantograph with a finer metal version, and that was that.  (This was an unusual electro–diesel railcar!)

One item, though, would appear to have possibilities for UK modellers, although probably not those with fine sensibilities.  I noticed an interesting looking clerestory roofed electric motor coach, with large windows and several sets of sliding doors (Etat Second Series from 1915) which looked much like early District and Metropolitan stock.  I thought that a pair of them would make a nice background shuttle for a possible Edwardian London display, making use of the HO scale difference to provide a forced perspective.

Two were duly ordered from China, and arrived astonishingly quickly.  When I opened the box I was in for a surprise – the coach was enormous!  It dwarfed a Hornby-Acho HO main line coach, and gave a Hornby Mark 3 a run for its money.  For a while I thought that Atlas had modelled it to a larger scale, but a little internet research showed that the real thing was a massive 22.8 metres long – 75 feet in old money, so when scaled down it was 262 mm long, which the model accurately measured. 

As it wasn’t going to work for forced perspective, I thought about whether it might be usable as a 4mm item.  If taken as a 4mm model, it is over 65 feet long, longer than any pre-grouping electric coach (LBSCR and L&YR had 60 footers) and on a par with the much later Brighton Belle.  Unfortunately, the ones it most resembles were much shorter, presumably to negotiate underground tunnels, at around 40 feet, but perhaps there is scope for cutting and carving for the more adventurous. As can be seen the window arrangement is very close to this 1922 Metropolitan coach.

(Metropolitan Railway Rolling Stock – James R Snowdon – Wild Swan)

There is also a lot in common with earlier District stock

(London Underground Surface Stock – Ian Huntley – Ian Allan)

The underframe is slightly unusual, being more of a steel truss design, but it closely resembles that on the LBSC overhead electrics, although their body style was completely different, retaining the compartment principle, rather than the open saloons adopted on most of the other electrification schemes.

The power bogie is rather a hopeless case, though.  The original has three axles, two of which are driven (sources are not clear if it was A1A-A1A or B1 -1B) and the model has relatively small wheels.  Using a normal sort of UK bogie, with a wheelbase of around 8 foot, would appear to work well, although I haven’t investigated motorisation yet, and normal UK 4mm coach wheels will help to bring the doors up to a normal platform level.

Overall I would say that, with minimal effort in the motorisation, and a re-paint, these models would make a very convincing pastiche of an elegant late Edwardian electric train, redolent not just of the Metropolitan and District Railways, but also the Mersey and Lancashire and Yorkshire too.  You might even get away without providing buffers as many adopted systems like buck-eye couplers.  The only down-side is that one of the end doors is very narrow, the driver will just have to stop eating those pies!

The thing that has surprised me is after dozens of pages and a few magazine reviews I've seen of the Bachmann 85, I've yet to notice a single comment refering to the lack of a changeover switch or even the ability to easily wire the loco for it's supposed "authentic" method of current collection. I could understand why It would have been a valuable feature in the days of old (before DCC), and there might be some element of prototypical accuracy to have a sparky running from the overhead (my first OHLE modelling was on a school OO layout with a Hornby 86 running under a length of tensioned single core copper wire that had been stripped of it's insulation), but to be honest, I've found then and since that it isn't reliable enough for it's intended use, and since you can't actually see how power is transferred to the loco, has little benefit.

Over to you....

I have been given some Hornby Catenary components and want to install them on my 7' by 4' layout. I have some questions about the system as unfortunatley there was no instruction sheets with the items I was given.

Does anyone know where I can acquire more mast links?

Also is there a substitute for the Hornby wire supplied as the contact wire - I was thinking of using 1.25mm copper wire but I am not certain if this is a good idea - the cantenary is to be unenergized but I want the pans to follow the wire.

Also what is the recommended spacing between the OHLE posts - The layout I am building uses mainly set track - the outer loop has 3rd radius corners whilst the inner loop uses Atlas 18 inch radius curves.

Many thanks in advance for your assistance

All the best

Ben Barnes