TomJ Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I just wanted to pick the brains of the RMWeb collective! After finishing a baseboard for my sons Thomas layout I have a piece of ply 4ft by 8inches just crying out for some thing to do with it! I'm not sure what the official dimensions/rules of minimum space are but I fancy using it to make a small layout I can keep propped up in my study that can be easily played with. I can add a cassette type fiddle yard on the end so this is the dimensions of the scenic setting. I want to keep it quick and cheap and use up a few Peco points I have lying around and so it also has to use my existing 1980s stock - some DMUs, a 25, 37, 47 and some Mk1 and parcel stock. I've mocked up a couple of ideas using the Peco templates on the ply and heres some rough sketches I've done. The exact dimensions etc aren't correct - I'm at home using the Mac so I can't use AnyRail which I find much easier. There really just sketches to give an idea of how they might pan out The top plan is inspired by Ian Futer's Victoria Park. There's an island platform between the bottom two tracks and parcels are handled on the top track. There's also a spur for a station pilot as there's no run round. This imagines its the end of a single track line The lower one imagines its a more conventional loop and bay platform - with the station throat being off stage to the right, so this could be single or double track approach. The bay could be used by DMUs or for parcel stock, with another siding behind for storage. What do people think of them, which might be the most fun to operate? I just want something I can play trains with and do a bit of shunting. Linked to this I still have no idea of a prototype for it. I guess its probably ex-WR somewhere as thats the stock I've got (but it could be anywhere!). Its probably inner-city as by the 80s a rural branch would be just a long siding. I fancy more operations than just a DMU shuffling in and out - perhaps the odd loco-hauled train (both plans will just take 4 Mk1 coach trains) or some parcels - any suggestions. My stock already has the Dapol automatic couplers added so I like hands free shunting with them. One thought I've even had is making it 3rd rail for something different but not sure how I could justify other traffic? I don't mind stretching reality a little as long as the idea is 'plausible' or sensible. Sorry for rambling on but any ideas or comments most welcome! Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted June 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2015 The top one looks much better. It has the potential for spaciousness that it missing from the bottom one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Agreed top one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted June 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2015 The first one for me too, but forget the platform face against the top road. Leave it as a carriage siding and shunt the vans to the platform for loading. It would be entirely typical of the period to have a BG and a GUV against the buffers with the passengers stumbling through a herd of brutes to reach their 2-coach DMU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks everyone for your suggestions - confirms what I thought! After all you can't go too far wrong with an Ian Futers plan! But then I got fiddling with some templates and got all confused…... Still trying to think of a plausible back story for the layout. I imagine its a secondary terminus in a city, perhaps the result of much earlier railway speculation and competition, which left it as a bit of a backwater bypassed by the main line. But now its reduced to just a DMU shuttle service to the main terminus and a few trains to points further afield. And as its nearer the city centre or the sorting office or similar perhaps it handles more of the parcels? Maybe in the Bristol area? My main interest has always been the GWR and successors? Or perhaps its branch line from the main station to a dock somewhere so it stayed open after Beeching? Maybe an alternative to the Weymouth tramway, still handling trains to meet the boats, and an excuse for parcels/mail traffic? Ideas, ideas , ideas…... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Imagine a hilly city, where the earliest railway had a terminus before the "too difficult" hill. The terminus was later bypassed by a tunnelled through line. That way, you could have the old terminus as parcels/DMU stabling/wagon works/whatever, with a hint of the "new" main line heading into a tunnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyboy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Imagine a hilly city, where the earliest railway had a terminus before the "too difficult" hill. The terminus was later bypassed by a tunnelled through line. That way, you could have the old terminus as parcels/DMU stabling/wagon works/whatever, with a hint of the "new" main line heading into a tunnel. The only hilly city I can imagine is Sheffield! How about a layout set there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 How about some variation of Minories? That should fit comfortably on your board. If you go for the Mk2 version, that would give you a depot alongside to use for parcels traffic. The good thing with the design is that you can just stretch or squeeze it to fit. With 4', you should be able to fit a 5-6 coach train on the longest platform if you want. Or you could have a little bit more running length beyond the station throat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 As a 1980s minimum space I'd swap out the goods shed for stabling for passenger vehicles or DMUs - think of it as a Minilebone using 108 and 101 dmus plus perhaps some 31s and blue suburbans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks for all the suggestions. I hadn't considered Minories as I had somehow assumed it would be too big, but I think I shall have another look at it again. Perhaps get the MDF out, a few points and play with some 1:1 scale planning. I don't think Sheffield would work as a location as I'm not sure the mighty GWR empire stretched quite that far north! Perhaps not quite so hilly but I was thinking maybe Bristol area or prehaps Newport or Cardiff. The premise I had was that the main city station is nearby but somehow this earlier one has survived as its more convenient for some part of the city, and now handles some of the parcels traffic. Main passenger flow is DMU's on suburban service but maybe the odd cross-country loco-hauled service (similar to Portsmouth-Cardiff) starts from here rather than the main city station. That's my excuse anyway..... What's peoples thoughts on the above scenario???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 A picture speaks a thousand words... Pretty much what you've already said. The hypothetical junction station could also be on the extension. This is how I'd play it. Could also do it as some kind of Moorgate/ Cannon St type thing, where it's somewhere that would be very busy at peak times (explaining why it's still open), but have much less off peak traffic (hence it's not very big). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 That picture does indeed speak many thousands of words!!! That's exactly the scenario I was looking for. It might not even have to be that huge a metropolis to justify such a setup. Perhaps the 'main' city station deals mostly with through intercity workings so some terminating trains (and parcels) use the old terminus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sheffield GWR? did they get there up the GW/ GC joint line then on up through Nottingham or through Woodhead Tunnel or was there a separate GW route through the Pennines? Only joking, or did the GW and GC amalgamate in 1923..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted July 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks for all the suggestions. I hadn't considered Minories as I had somehow assumed it would be too big, but I think I shall have another look at it again. Perhaps get the MDF out, a few points and play with some 1:1 scale planning. I don't think Sheffield would work as a location as I'm not sure the mighty GWR empire stretched quite that far north! Perhaps not quite so hilly but I was thinking maybe Bristol area or prehaps Newport or Cardiff. The premise I had was that the main city station is nearby but somehow this earlier one has survived as its more convenient for some part of the city, and now handles some of the parcels traffic. Main passenger flow is DMU's on suburban service but maybe the odd cross-country loco-hauled service (similar to Portsmouth-Cardiff) starts from here rather than the main city station. That's my excuse anyway..... What's peoples thoughts on the above scenario???? In some ways you have almost described Plymouth Millbay, once the main station but gradually replaced by North Road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 In some ways you have almost described Plymouth Millbay, once the main station but gradually replaced by North Road. Or indeed Southampton Terminus and Bournemouth West. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I was thinking maybe Bristol area or prehaps Newport or Cardiff. The premise I had was that the main city station is nearby but somehow this earlier one has survived as its more convenient for some part of the city, and now handles some of the parcels traffic. Main passenger flow is DMU's on suburban service but maybe the odd cross-country loco-hauled service (similar to Portsmouth-Cardiff) starts from here rather than the main city station. That's my excuse anyway..... What's peoples thoughts on the above scenario???? Sounds like a great plan. There are examples on the GWR where a biggish city had a secondary station for all manner of reasons. Birmingham Moor Street being perhaps the example that fits your scenario best. However if you are doing a "what if" layout then there is no reason why you could not have had a XXXX Moor Street at another city too. In Bristol you could imagine a spur taking the suburban services to a new terminus in the Broadmead or Redcliffe areas to relieve capacity for through trains at Temple Meads. I daresay a thumb through the map would find similar possibilities in other cities if you fancy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 And it actually fits!! Just winding down after a night shift with a 4ft length of plywood, some old points and a bit of scrap track. Seems like Minories fits in (just - the platforms might be a bit narrow!!). And can fit a 31 and 4 mk1 coaches with a bit of room to spare In the later version by CJF I have there is a siding along the front that would fit to perhaps stable a unit or extra loco between working? It would folk up some space at the front but I don't want to crowd things. Thanks for the suggestions - I don't know why is never considered Minories but it fits the bull perfectly. Just what CJF suggested, a cramped, intensively worked city terminus. Should provide lots of operating potential. Mind you it's moved away a bit from my idea of using up leftovers for a cheap build - I'll have to buy some more points now! Still got to ponder how I fit in the station building, either (very) low relief, off scene or underneath or on top. Food for thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 One of the things I really love about building small layouts is the ability to plan in 1:1 - just a few points or templates and some stock. I've been playing around with Minories and am in two minds. The concept is great, and the arrangement of the throat gives the impression of a much more complex layout (apparently CJF spent 30yrs failing to improve on this!). But the points do take up a lot of space. So the platforms will look rather squashed. The alternative is a single line approach three platform terminus plus loco spur. Less interesting to look at - and perhaps to operate - but a bit lore spacious. It feels like the battle if two master track planners for small layouts, CJF vs Ian Futers! As an aside does anyone know of am example of a GWR station where the buildings were above the tracks? Like the GC london extension idea? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Some of the stations between Paddington and Slough have the entrances etc on road overbridges. And Burnham station entrance is at road level beneath the tracks (though the actual facilities there are, like on the smaller GC London extension stations, on the platform). Could argued moor st as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks to the wonders of Google Earth I've taken a little wander through West London this evening! As you say many of the stations have their buildings on the overbridge and stairs down to the platform. Southall looks like a contender with quite an interesting little building to fit on the bridge. Or indeed Burnham if I go for the layout on an embankment look. Decisions, decisions, decisions...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Small Heath or Acocks Green south of Birmingham are nice examples of a compact GWR station on an overbridge if you are looking for some ideas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Thanks for those pictures. A couple of rather nice modelable buildings - and have that very 'GWR' look. Can I ask one more daft question (is there a daft question quota on RMWeb - I might have exceeded it). How would a station above or below the tracks deal with parcel traffic? Would a lift to ground level be enough? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted July 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2015 Thanks for those pictures. A couple of rather nice modelable buildings - and have that very 'GWR' look. Can I ask one more daft question (is there a daft question quota on RMWeb - I might have exceeded it). How would a station above or below the tracks deal with parcel traffic? Would a lift to ground level be enough? Thanks. Westbury station is below track level. I believe that the parcels were taken up/down via a lift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-dereham Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 ........ Only joking, or did the GW and GC amalgamate in 1923..... Now that's an idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR88 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Personally, I'd follow Carl Arendts ruling on micro layout sizing and that's 4 foot square. I'm not sure if thats includes the fiddleyard though. All the best, Lloyd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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