chrisf Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I have received an email inviting me to book in advance for this show. This time, early bird tickets are on offer until 10th August giving admission up to an hour early and a discount of £2 on the door price of £10. However ... Clicking on the relevant box in the e-mail takes one to a website which appears to have a connection with the NEC. To the bargain early bird price of £8 the website seeks to add a fee of £1 to have the tickets e-mailed to the purchaser or £2.50 to have them posted. Am I alone in deploring this? It is bad enough having to pay a booking fee for music events without this insidious practice creeping into the world of model railways. Will there be another way of buying tickets which does actually achieve a real saving, such as speaking to a human being on the telephone and quoting ones subscriber number, as in the good old days? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I've passed the query on Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRMExhibitions Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hi Chris, The reason we have migrated our booking process to an agency is to help improve the experience for our customers. Customers can book via their secure and easy to use website, or they can call the dedicated ticket hotline from 7am-11pm – both operating 7days a week. This means longer opening times for customers as well as being able to book up to the day before the event. Ticket Factory handle thousands of booking within the hobby market and will help promote the already excellent show to more railway enthusiasts, traders, layouts and specialist clubs/societies – enhancing the experience for all. For the first time Warners Shows are opening the doors to pre-booked visitors a whole hour before the show opens – giving visitors the perfect opportunity to browse or buy that special item before the non-booked are allowed into the show. There is also FREE Show guide for pre-booked and to all visitors we have FREE car parking and bus shuttle from the railway station. The National Festival of Railway Modelling is now in its 8th successful year and we have managed to retain the same ticket price since the beginning. Remember if you subscribe to British Railway Modelling magazine, entry will cost £8.00 up until the closing date at 12 noon on 16th October. Thank you for your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Good afternoon, BRMExhibitions, and thank you for your reply. It is good to know that booking by telephone is an option. Would this be via the 0844 number given on the Ticket Factory website that costs 7p a minute? There was no mention of this or the BRM subscriber discount in the e-mail from Model Railways Live. I'm sure you will agree that "improving" and "enhancing" the experience must be a matter of opinion. Mine may not be the same as yours. Finally, you maintain that entry will cost £8. Is it possible to pay that price for a ticket without also paying a surcharge for receiving an e-mail (£1) or a letter (£2.50)? If not, your publicity should make this clear. Chris Edited for typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hi Chris, The reason we have migrated our booking process to an agency is to help improve the experience for our customers. Customers can book via their secure and easy to use website, or they can call the dedicated ticket hotline from 7am-11pm – both operating 7days a week. This means longer opening times for customers as well as being able to book up to the day before the event. Ticket Factory handle thousands of booking within the hobby market and will help promote the already excellent show to more railway enthusiasts, traders, layouts and specialist clubs/societies – enhancing the experience for all. For the first time Warners Shows are opening the doors to pre-booked visitors a whole hour before the show opens – giving visitors the perfect opportunity to browse or buy that special item before the non-booked are allowed into the show. There is also FREE Show guide for pre-booked and to all visitors we have FREE car parking and bus shuttle from the railway station. The National Festival of Railway Modelling is now in its 8th successful year and we have managed to retain the same ticket price since the beginning. Remember if you subscribe to British Railway Modelling magazine, entry will cost £8.00 up until the closing date at 12 noon on 16th October. Thank you for your comments. A step backwards in my opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Score so far? Management jargon 1 Clear answers 0 ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glo41f Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 How can a booking fee "improve the experience" please? What am I getting for the surcharge? The early entry mentioned is possible regardless of this booking fee. Not impressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I think if you chose the letter option at £2.50. plus the £8 ticket price, that comes to more than paying at the door on the day, unless admission prices on the day have risen. Couldn't find out from the advert or the show website how much it is to pay at the door on the day either. Only advantage therefore might be getting in early.....if all the exhibitors have been able to get there for 9am.....something that is very difficult when relying on hotel weekend breakfasts which often do not start until 8am..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Interesting that the reply came from an anonymous "BRM Exhibitions". I have thus far refused to pay any booking fee for any event and see no reason to change. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The reason we have migrated our booking process to an agency is to help improve the experience for our customers. That statement alone minds me of the now very old adage. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t!" It seems that despite the promised discount, no matter how you try to achieve it you end up paying more than the on the day admission price. All for entry an hour earlier. Will the exhibitors have been told they have to be up and running an hour before official open door times? "Marketing speak". Not in the model railway world please. Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2015 Interesting that the reply came from an anonymous "BRM Exhibitions". I have thus far refused to pay any booking fee for any event and see no reason to change. Ed I absolutely fail to understand the logic of a 'booking fee' but it seems the London theatres are riddled with the idea. Is it some way of raising prices without being told off for doing so, or is it just a con? In fact in this instance - as in many others - it would appear that what is actually being charged is an agency fee - you would be paying (not that I will) to make use of their 'service' and the choice is yours. But what it does do is bring the whole business of advance booking into question when it is suggested that it offers a price advantage but seemingly results in what is actually (subject to confirmation) more likely a price penalty. Not very clever, especially when you consider that for some shows advance booking incurs no additional cost at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted July 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2015 I hope they don't use these ticket agency people for the Ally Pally exhibition. Any booking fee and other charges will mean I will refuse to attend, I am not in the business of lining the pockets of greedy ticket agencies, the majority of whom I see as nothing more than greedy commercial money grabbers who should be put up against a wall and shot. Bad week.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 ... what it does do is bring the whole business of advance booking into question when it is suggested that it offers a price advantage but seemingly results in what is actually (subject to confirmation) more likely a price penalty. Not very clever, especially when you consider that for some shows advance booking incurs no additional cost at all. I have some experience in exhibition/conference organisation. The usual logic is to secure as many pre-orders as possible: firstly to help your own cash flow, and secondly to lock people into committing to the event. (Pre-orders also give you great information about how many tickets you're ultimately likely to sell.) If you rely on "on the door" sales you can be scuppered at the last minute by bad weather or any number of other unexpected things. To encourage pre-orders you need to offer a discount. Otherwise, as a glance at this thread shows, your pricing is sending the wrong signal to your customers. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted July 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2015 There are a number of exhibitors who, for various reasons, prefer to set up on the Saturday morning rather than the Friday night. In the case of traders, it may be that they don't want to spend some of their hard earned cash on rooms for an extra night. It may be that a tiny layout only takes a short while to set up so people don't want or need to be away from home another night. An opening as early as 9am pretty much forces everybody to be there Friday night and may well actually increase the cost to the exhibition organisers as extra hotel bookings for the Friday night might result. Is there anybody who will go to a show only because it opens at 9am rather than 10am? I suppose it gives people the opportunity to trawl the trade stands for bargains but will it really make a difference of even one in the number attending? That extra hour does make all the difference to exhibitors as it gives them chance to have breakfast at a sensible time, travel to the venue, do any odd jobs and be ready all relaxed when the crowds come in. I live fairly close to Doncaster and have helped out on the EMGS stand there for the last few years. If they are going for a 9am opening there, they can find somebody else to do it as to get into town, park up, unload and set up for 9am is not something I am prepared to do. This "migration" of ticket sales really just means that there is another snout in the profit trough, with more of the visitors cash going out of the hobby into the pockets of a business. The idea that the discount plus a booking fee being more than the usual admission being an "improvement" is just a rather bad joke. Sorry but this sort of thing is not what model railway exhibitions should be about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted July 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2015 having taken advantage of the 30 minute early entry previously and found many exhibits not yet up and running, it's questionable what the benefit will be of a whole hour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 He who pays the money has the ultimate choice. I for one will not be paying, and if this continues will not even be paying at the door. I would rather go to a local exhibition to support the local clubs. This smacks of commercial greed to me. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I've given exhibitions a shout just so I could put a bit of context around this. Last year's advance price was £9.00 with half an hour early entry and a showguide. This year the early bird offer up to 10 August is £8.00 + £1.00 booking fee = £9.00 with an hour's early entry and a showguide. After 10th August the advance price will be £9.00 + £1.00 booking fee (early entry + showguide) = £10. Pay on the day = £10 with no early entry and the showguide would be extra. Folks can make their choices but the early bird offer means you are paying no more than last year as an advance booking and can get earlier access if you wish. I've previously seen criticisms when people trying to book in advance using the MRL site had problems so a more robust solution has been found with better support and the ability to market to other users of that site. The result is that early figures for advance tickets shows a substantial increase over previous years. As I look at the price breakdown it looks like we are taking any hit but it's a commercial decision to improve attendance. Hopefully this is good for traders too and increased ticket sales mean we can build better shows. I believe the earlier opening time and breakfast arrangements have been / are being communicated to exhibitors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi Andy. I think it's brave of you to put your name to this because I don't think it's your decision, and I believe it will stir up a lot of resentment. The daft thing is that if you had just said "early booking £9.00" and not mentioned the booking fee I wouldn't have said anything! (sorry, used a !). It's still not clear whether BRM subscribers pay the same as everyone else. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 It's still not clear whether BRM subscribers pay the same as everyone else. BRM subscribers are £8 (same as last year) up until October 16th at 12pm (+ the £1 booking fee) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2015 The only show for which I nowadays buy advance tickets is Railex - no additional charges at all and the opportunity to have a nice piece of cake as I buy them while at the Risborough show. Here then might be something to Warners advantage - at each of their big shows they sell tickets for the next one. Thus you get a potentially regular clientele (= 'committed customers') who are perpetually (maybe) paying well in advance and getting a discount which encourages them to do so but without having to lash out on any 'booking fees' or postal charges or whatever. As far as Warners are concerned it means cash in early plus customers committed; the overheads would be minimal as they are in any case usually selling something at their own shows so handling payments shouldn't be too difficult although holding stocks of tickets securely would need some thought. So there you - simple advance booking which will suit those who go to the range of exhibitions. Why not give it a try? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Thanks to Andy for clarifying the costs. As has been said I don't think it's the cost that is the problem but the way the costs are being marketed. Looking at this page: https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Exhibitions/-7/The_National_Festival_of_Railway_Modelling/ the "ticket" clearly states save 20%, 1 HR earlier entry, Free Showguide and Free Parking. I can't argue with the offer of the free showguide but once the booking fees are added the 20% discount is eroded. Free parking will apply to all attendees whether pre booked or not, and the one hour early entry... I find it surprising that the earlier opening times are just being communicated to the exhibitors as that extra one hour and the additional complications it causes (as outlined by TBG earlier) could make a lot of difference regarding the ability to attend. I may have missed it but I haven't seen any official opening times published so surmise a 10:00am opening is correct for those paying on the door? Personally I found the pre booking offer to be misleading and once highlighted by the original poster; the reply, particularly the first paragraph, from Warners exhibitions to be patronising. It makes me wonder if Warners Exhibitions make decisions without fully consulting with those at BRM and whether they fully understand the Model Railway exhibition demographic. Once again thanks to Andy for his reply. Awkward bunch, them pesky railway modellers.Porcy Edit: Just found the opening times on the Ticket Factory are stated as Sat Oct 17 2015 - 9:00am to Sun Oct 18 2015 - 4:30pm. Does that mean the early Birds get in at 08:00 am? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I too would like to thank Andy for relaying Exhibitions' explanation. I agree with Porcy Mane that the problem lies in the marketing. The e-mail from Model Railways Live quoted the price of early bird tickets as £8. It did not see fit to mention the delivery charges, these being revealed only when deep in the ticket agency website. At best this was a silly mistake. At worst it could be regarded as misleading advertising, which can attract heavy penalties. A silly mistake is easily corrected. Over to you, Exhibitions. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Folks it's the modern world we are living in. You,pays your money and takes your choice. Or you don't go. Like it or not, you have a choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Folks it's the modern world we are living in. Correct but that doesn't necessarily make it better nor does it "improve the experience for our customers" as implied. Are we as railway modellers expected to follow sheep like into the sharp practices of other ticket booking systems? Maybe Warners can take criticisms constructively and improve things for the better. Or you don't go. Like it or not, you have a choice. Reading through the above posts it seems like a few folk are exercising that option. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Then don't go. Simples. It may then change but let's face it, it's a big do, and just because it's model trains doesn't mean it should be down to an individual or a team within Warners to,sort. After all, they are a publishing house. The decision has been made to pass it on to an outside agency, like many other expos. And like I said, you have a simple choice. End of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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