Jump to content
 

Uhlenbrock 64400 Daisey - Wireless Controller


Richard Pike

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

Anyone have any experience of using a Uhlenbrock Daisey 64400 controller, it allegedly has a wireless working range of up to 100, I am thinking of changing from my existing Lenz system to one of these and  would like any feedback anyone may have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

It's only just become available so probably best to search German forums and translate. I've been watching for it as the option to RC my G scale locos but keep the dcc chip sound is tempting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Anyone have any experience of using a Uhlenbrock Daisey 64400 controller, it allegedly has a wireless working range of up to 100, I am thinking of changing from my existing Lenz system to one of these and  would like any feedback anyone may have.

I had a very brief play with one at Warley last December, as part of the DCC demo/clinic area. Range seemed very good, can't comment on 100m range, but walking as far as possible to the corner of the NEC (a longer distance than any layout of 7mm scale and below on show at Warley) and the unit was still working. Considering the problems with wireless systems at the NEC due to radio noise from dozens of smartphones, wifi hot spots, etc. resulting in some systems having ranges at the NEC of perhaps 10-15 feet. this seemed very good.  In part that's radio frequencies, it doesn't use the same frequencies as WiFi.

 

The throttle is compatible with Digitrax command stations, we were using the Daisy II throttle and "Funk" radio base unit onto a Digitrax command station.

 

As a throttle, I think its a nice design.   Trouble is, the ESU/Piko designed "smartphone" throttle looks even better (on paper, not handled on), but the question with that unit is when it will be released, whereas the Uhlenbrock has been on sale for approaching a year, and is in stock at German and UK retailers.    The UK importer, A&H in Northamptonshire, have some excellent videos on how to use the Daisy II.

 

 

- Nigel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Nigel, I am planning on passing through Brackley in a couple of weeks and thought of dropping in at A&H models, my layout is only 35', so sounds like the range performance will not be an issue.

 

Feel an expenditure coming on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had a Daisy 2 radio controller for nearly a year, which I use with an Intellibox 2; so I cannot comment on the complete system .  I like Daisy very much.  I certainly do not think that you will have any difficulties with range.  My layout is at the front of the first floor in a fairly spacious Victorian house and I have found that the controller works from the back of the house on the ground floor. It also works in the street at least 100m away.  It is easy to use, fits nicely in the hand and is light without being flimsy.

 

Nigel Cliffe has made a good point about the long awaited ESU device.  It does make the Uhlenbrock look a bit old fashioned.  On the other hand Uhlenbrock has a wide range of generally clever accessories for the Loconet and you can generally use Loconet items from various other makers (the only exception that I have come across so far is Digitrax's Loconet Repeater; Digitrax controllers work but Daisy and ProfiBoss do not - can anyone explain why?).  This was why, when I decided to replace my Intellibox 1, though very tempted by an ECoS I remained faithful to Uhlenbrock.

 

The display screen is a bit small, but it is bright and sharp.  Some of the symbols for the loco functions are not very easy to read (but a nice touch is that you can design and draw your own symbols).  Entering all the details into the locodatabank is tedious, but there is a free computer programme (Daisy Tool) which makes it easy. It is perhaps a pity that Uhlenbrock could not have produced a version of the ProfiBoss with its bigger screen, but I believe that the rights to that design remain with Fleischmann.  Overall though, I think that you wouldn't go far wrong with a Daisy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I called in at A&H and checked out the Daisey wireless controller, I was very impressed but didn't realise the price for the unit didn't include the base controller, which results in a ready to go kit costing close to 600 which I feel is hard to justify against my existing Lenz set up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Can you not add the Daisy II radio controller to the Daisy II DCC system?

 

That makes it:-

 

Daisy II DCC system £215

Daisy II radio hand controller with radio master module £271.82

 

So total £486.82

 

Still a huge amount of money for wireless, when the Prodigy advanced² wireless can be bought for £369

If you have a Lenz system that's XpressNet so you must be looking at going to Loconet and or wireless as reasons to change?

 

Cheers

 

Ian 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

These custom made handsets are still very expensive though to add more unfortunately. Z21 is significantly cheaper if you have a smartphone and I'm using a uhlenbrock booster with mine for G scale. The Daisy supporting their battery wireless system is a big plus but for dcc only expensive. I've been watching it for the option to go battery powered with the existing sound chips outdoors but it's just all adds up and I can't justify it at present.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi,

 

Now I can add the Roco Z21 to the list of incompatible DCC command stations with the Uhlenbrock 64400 wireless Loconet hand controller .... It will function when connected with the supplied cable . However, the so called radio master is just one expensive paper weight and I must put the blame for this on Roco and the hopeless website z21.eu which indicates the supposed compatibility with the Daisy radio master in an update that is nowhere to be found . At least the Loconet allows the use of long cables to allow some freedom of movement around a large layout .

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like mine with my Digitrax system, much better than the Digitrax throttles, which just have too much, a poor display, small buttons and needs two hands, (with my banana fingers anyway). I know the Daisy can't be used for decoder programming, but there are other ways of doing that.

I'm also not convinced the Piko and ESU throttles are necessarily a step forward, still looks like it's a two handed job and that you'd have to take your eyes off the action every time you want to use the touch screen, pretty much the same reasons I'm not convinced a phone or tablet is a great way to do it either. A rotary throttle has a lot going for it, particularly if one handed for more than 75% of the time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

.......... Considering the problems with wireless systems at the NEC due to radio noise from dozens of smartphones, wifi hot spots, etc. resulting in some systems having ranges at the NEC of perhaps 10-15 feet. this seemed very good.  In part that's radio frequencies, it doesn't use the same frequencies as WiFi.............

 

 

 

- Nigel

This is interesting, could you elaborate please. I have googled this and can't find any references.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting [ Radio frequency of Daisy Funk being different to WiFi ], could you elaborate please. I have googled this and can't find any references.

Daisy wireless (Daisy Funk) spec:

http://www.uhlenbrock.de/INTERN/PRODUKTE/DIGZEN/I7DE59EB-001.htm!ArcEntryInfo=0007.12.I7DE59E

States 868Mhz.

868Mhz is part of the frequencies reserved for short-range low power radio devices.  Those are often used for walkie-talkie type devices. 

 

WiFi frequencies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

2.4 to 2.5Ghz

 

Different frequencies. The interference from other radio sources and "blocking" by a building's structure of one radio frequency will be different to another.

 

 

The comment about Warley 2014 and WiFi range was based on my experience.  I was part of a large DCC demonstration "theatre" where we had numerous systems to show people, and we had range issues on WiFi.  We had frequency scanner tools on a laptop to try to find "quiet" frequency options.   Chats with other layout operators showed they also had range issues.   I've had reports from other large shows of similar problems.     If building a portable exhibition layout which uses wireless controllers, I'd always have a wired fall-back option should the radio become impossible due to local circumstances. 

 

 

- Nigel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously you haven't looked around very hard on the Z21 site :rolleyes:  It clearly states the LN jack is for throttles only, there is no rail-sync signal on pins 1 and 6. Roco is working on that, but fixing it yourself can be done, if you know what you're doing. :yes:

(which means I'm not gonna tell you, someone who knows about electronics can work it out themselves and those who aren't I refuse to expose to any risk of damaging their Z21!)

 

Updates can be downloaded from their site and via the Z21 app (Android and apple).

 

I do not believe that the lack of railsync signal has anything to do with the problem of the Funkmaster not working with the Z21.  It does not need railsync.  Uhlenbrock's instructions state that the Funkmaster LN may be connected to either Loconet socket (B which has railsync or T which does not) on an Uhlenbrock digital centre (the Funkmaster LN+DCC, which communicates by radio directly with the loco, must be plugged into the B socket).  My Funkmaster LN works fine in the T socket with no railsync signal.

 

The same problem occurred initially with ESU's Loconet adapter for the ECoS; a Daisy worked when plugged in directly but not via a Funkmaster.  An update to the Daisy software cured the problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously you haven't looked around very hard on the Z21 site :rolleyes:  It clearly states the LN jack is for throttles only, there is no rail-sync signal on pins 1 and 6. Roco is working on that, but fixing it yourself can be done, if you know what you're doing. :yes:

(which means I'm not gonna tell you, someone who knows about electronics can work it out themselves and those who aren't I refuse to expose to any risk of damaging their Z21!)

 

Updates can be downloaded from their site and via the Z21 app (Android and apple).

Thank you very much sir . The Uhlenbrock is a throttle and since a FAQ page is supposed to be simple to follow and understand by any model railroader to be able to make a decision on what to buy . As I stated the hand controller works perfectly when connected by cable and I still insist that Roco should not have added the Daisy radio controller to the Z21 Loconet compatible devices without first trying them out ..... But then again maybe I should have done that myself when I got the Z21 and the Uhlenbrock unit . However, since I live half way around the world from where I purchased the equipment it is simply not easy or practical to return except on another trip .

 

The next move ( Bigger risk ) is to link the ESU ECoS 50200 to the Z21 using the sniffer port and then add the ESU mobile controller (android based) to the ECoS to have a throttle with rotary throttle dial . Which brings me to the question that is yet to be answered : Anyone tried to connect the main track output wires from the ECoS 50200 to the Z21 Sniff port/Bus ?

 

Doing the connection the other way ( Z21 output to ECoS 50200 sniffer) has already been demonstrated on you tube by model railroader

( Hovermottion ) .

 

Thanks again .

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not believe that the lack of railsync signal has anything to do with the problem of the Funkmaster not working with the Z21.  It does not need railsync.  Uhlenbrock's instructions state that the Funkmaster LN may be connected to either Loconet socket (B which has railsync or T which does not) on an Uhlenbrock digital centre (the Funkmaster LN+DCC, which communicates by radio directly with the loco, must be plugged into the B socket).  My Funkmaster LN works fine in the T socket with no railsync signal.

 

The same problem occurred initially with ESU's Loconet adapter for the ECoS; a Daisy worked when plugged in directly but not via a Funkmaster.  An update to the Daisy software cured the problem.

That indeed makes sense ! But where to find that elusive update for the Uhlenbrock radio master ?

 

The Uhlenbrock web site assumes that all mankind speak Deutsch and Roco just mentions the word -update- beneath the radio master hand held on the 1st Loconet devices page on z21.eu

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

That indeed makes sense ! But where to find that elusive update for the Uhlenbrock radio master ?

 

The Uhlenbrock web site assumes that all mankind speak Deutsch and Roco just mentions the word -update- beneath the radio master hand held on the 1st Loconet devices page on z21.eu

 

Thanks

Assuming the Uhlenbrock item was bought in the UK from a UK dealer, ask them, or the UK importers A&H - they are usually on the ball about the products they import.

If bought in Germany, I'd assume knowing how to read German or work Google-Translate (other translation tools available) would be sensible.

 

 

- Nigel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...