RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 17, 2015 Since we have quite a few cyclists on here, are there any Moulton fans? I will shortly revert to commuting to/from work again and will have five mile journey to the train station and then from Euston to Victoria at the other end which is another short cycle or hour or so walk. The de-facto standard for folding bikes is Brompton, and as folding bikes go I think they deserve their reputation as the folding benchmark. An option is to have two cheap hack bikes with one alternating between being chained to station cycle racks and the office but I find cycling around London bikes like a Brompton are the right tool and if you're going to be spending a noticeable amount of the week on the thing you want something enjoyable. As an alternative to the Brompton I'm interested in the Moulton TSR2. In some ways it is the perfect urban bike in that a kickback rear brake and kickback two speed hub gear make it extremely simple with only one cable to the front brake and based on my experience with a higher end Moulton a few years ago the ride and handling are a class above Brompton. A big class above. The TSR2 is their entry level but for what I'm looking for it seems ideal, except for the folding bit. The frame splits and since there are no cables it splits very quickly and easily, just as easily as a Brompton. The thing is you're then left with two halves of a bike, OK two small wheeled halfs but nevertheless two halves. Is this allowed on trains as being within the scope of folding bikes? And would carrying two bike halves make any ride positives of a Moulton relative to a Brompton fade very quickly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'd say stick with a Brommie. I liked the look of the clean and simple TSR2 as well, but the fold and six gears of the Brompton make it more practical. Also you mention London. Don't forget the Brampton's party trick of coming inside with you and fitting under your desk. Would you have to leave that £1000 Moulton outside? Bromptons are slow and a bit twitchy but you can still put in the miles on them. I risked forty miles the other week and (surprisingly) nothing hurt afterwards, even with the comical foam handlebar grips. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Never mind those. I remember the Bickerton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted August 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2015 We have two Bromptons, both 3speed. I use mine mainly when I have to travel by train then an onward journey. The only changes I've made are better grips and a Brooks saddle. My wife's is considerably older and was used for a time as a general runabout. As she doesn't drive she does a lot of hopping onto buses and trains with it, much more convenient than her ordinary bike when that is involved. That bike has just had it's second rebuild, most parts are readily available although it pays to shop around for them rather than go to Brompton for them. One thing with the Brompton was the dynamo lights used to be rubbish. Fit your own Cateyes or similar now that battery life with LEDs is much better than old lights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Bromptons are slow and a bit twitchy but you can still put in the miles on them. Ha!! Try telling that to the bloke I was following earlier in the year. He was ticking along quite nicely at about 22mph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ha!! Try telling that to the bloke I was following earlier in the year. He was ticking along quite nicely at about 22mph. Yes, slow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Never mind those. I remember the Bickerton. I had a three speed Bickerton. Gave it to my son - when he lost his at University. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2015 Bromptons are more than quick enough for most circumstances I'd say. I use one daily for riding to/from stations at both ends of the commute. It's easy to sit at 20mph if you so desire. The limit is definitely my sartorial attire! Moulton's largest advantage is in the aerodynamics from having a smaller wheel (versus a full size road bike). This isn't hugely relevant for most people just looking to bimble about day to day. They're generally pretty heavy too. Brompton gets my vote. IMO kick back brakes most certainly aren't an advantage, and the 'two halves of a bike' thing would be a massive pain I'd say! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 19, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 Thanks for the feedback!! Viewed as a commuter tool and certainly as a folding bike then the Brompton is the best bike in its class I think. Their design is extremely well thought out and sorted. And it is nice to support a bike still actually made in England. That said I've always admired Moulton. Although they're often grouped with small wheeled folding bikes they're a very different bike. Alex Moulton was wilfully different and took a radically different approach to bike design and did it remarkably well. Whenever I've ridden Moulton bikes they'd been a joy to ride. I'd love one of the high end models but they're very expensive. The TSR budget range is their "railroad" series but I think they do capture the Moulton-ness. I just like the idea of finally riding one regularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 19, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 As with Brompton Moulton are still actually manufactured in England. The TSR series uses mainly off the shelf components which are imported but the frames are made in England. There aren't that many bikes made here now. Pashley make bikes in England but they have their own niche aimed at a retro and town bike market, the other bike manufacturers are small custom builders making very small numbers of high end bikes. Sad really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 There aren't that many bikes made here now. Pashley make bikes in England but they have their own niche aimed at a retro and town bike market, the other bike manufacturers are small custom builders making very small numbers of high end bikes. Sad really. Brompton are actually the UK's largest bike manufacturer and they're pretty niche. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 19, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 Yes, Brompton are a great British success story, designing, manufacturing and selling a great product that has found markets around the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 19, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 I think my post is badly worded, Brompton and Pashley are both large-ish suppliers with Brompton the bigger. Moulton are British. However other than Brompton and Pashley the British bike industry is now mainly low volume, high end builders like Moulton, Mercian, Shand, Dave Yates, Argos etc. Even some of the sellers still offering bespoke bikes such as Condor, Ribble, Dolan, Planet-X and Pearson buy frames from mainly Asia. To be clear there is nothing wrong with Asian frames, quite the opposite. Taiwan in particular is probably the global centre of excellence for bicycle frames now but it is nice to try and support what manufacture is left here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkeNd Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 If you are cycling to work the simplicity of folding of the Bromptons has to be a major advantage over a relatively short distance. The main problem with cycling to work is the thieving lowlifes who steal bikes - even from secure bike cages with CCTV and security staff. We had numerous cases of people cycling in at shift time on an old bike complete with supermarket bag of sandwiches and being nodded through by security - only for them to ride straight out with the off-going shift on someones brand new Cycle to Work funded machine. With the Brompton you can leave it under your desk in the office. I noticed, when there a few weeks back, that St John Street Cycles in Bridgewater who make their own Thorn bikes are now selling large numbers of Brompton bikes - so there must be quite a following for them now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 only for them to ride straight out with the off-going shift on someones brand new Cycle to Work funded machine. Let's call a spade a spade. It's an employee funded machine by their own hard-earned. Cycle to Work isn't as attractive as it used to be. If you're thinking of getting something other than a Moulton or a Brompton where discounts are rare you may be better off just buying a bike outright with a discount. Last year's models are where bargains are to be had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 19, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 Yes, now is a good time to buy a bike as shops want to clear 2015 ranges ready for 2016 model years bikes. So you can easily get discounts of 20-30% and sometimes more, and if you get 0% finance it can work out better than cycle to work. Since they tightened up the final value bit cycle to work is not the bargain it once was, the one I got a few years ago was a £1000 bike, the loan came off gross pay so I only paid 60% of the cost in effect and at the end of it my employer charged me £5 to buy the bike outright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 and at the end of it my employer charged me £5 to buy the bike outright. At the end of mine I had to pay £75 for a final three year rental of a bike I had already covered the purchase price of. At the end of that I can return or keep it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I looked (briefly) at the Cycle to Work scheme a few years back - and laughed. For a start, it was basically "buy from Halfords", that put me off for a start. Then rent the bike, paying for it at the end, at a price based on its current value. I took that 2 ways; maintain it in good nick and pay more, or run it in to the ground a nd pay less (though would it be worth buying then?). Trouble was it appeared that you had to have it professionally serviced! FOR A BIKE! I went on to ebay, bought a (new) folding bike for just under £100, no problems with that. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I looked (briefly) at the Cycle to Work scheme a few years back - and laughed. For a start, it was basically "buy from Halfords", that put me off for a start. Then rent the bike, paying for it at the end, at a price based on its current value. I took that 2 ways; maintain it in good nick and pay more, or run it in to the ground a nd pay less (though would it be worth buying then?). Trouble was it appeared that you had to have it professionally serviced! FOR A BIKE! I went on to ebay, bought a (new) folding bike for just under £100, no problems with that. Stewart That's nothing like the cycletowork scheme we use. Yes they promote Halfords but you don't have to use them at all. I've taken advantage of the scheme this year and I went to buyabike http://www.buyabike.co.uk/. The cost is spread over the year and I get it at a discount due to it going out of my pay packet before other deductions. At the end of the year if you decide to keep the bike then HMRC treat it as a benefit in kind from your employer so you then have to pay the appropriate level of tax. They assume a certain level of depreciation over the year so they don't look at the condition of the bike. The one I did a couple of years ago I bought a £1000 bike on the scheme - probably cost me about £650 in payments over the year and I had to pay about £60 tax at the end for the benefit in kind. So virtually 30% discount on a bike - seemed like a good deal to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2015 Cycle to Work can still be a great way to get a bike. My advice is to look at the bike you want, is it available on C2W and if so compare the price you'll pay on C2W including the final payment with what you'll pay elsewhere. As has been noted, for bikes like Brompton and Moulton which are rarely discounted and if discounted are quite modestly discounted then C2W is excellent. For other bikes where you find huge end of season discounts along with 0% APR credit if you want to spread the cost then C2W is often not the best choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I regularly use a dahon speed 8. I found the handling, more appropriate hub gear and size to be a bonus whilst still folding small and being easy to stow on trains/bus/car. Dahon are a very old established manufacturer of folding bike and mynomlh complaint was wearing out a wheel until I totted up how far I had ridden on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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