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Pre-TOPS numbered class 50s on the WR


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In Diesels Western Style by Keith Montague there is a photo of class 50 number 400 on trials on the WR. Where any other class 50s transferred to the WR before they got their TOPS numbers?

 

The reason for asking this is, I have decided that Ranelagh Bridge (Looking from the other side) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97489-ranelagh-bridge-looking-from-the-other-side/will be set during the livery transformation of the late 60s, just venturing into the early 70s. If I have enough blue locos it could run as a all blue stabling point and a class 50 would make a change from all those Westerns.

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According to Harris "The Allocation History or BR Diesels & Electrics", quite a few managed to reach the Western with their 4xx numbers. A quick scan suggests 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, 405 & 419, with 411 & 413 shown as being renumbered during the month they moved, but with no actual dates given.

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Clive,

 

I've just had a skim through the Roger Harris bible, volume 3 on this.  

 

It shows 400 as transferred to Bath Road on 14th October 1972 for crew training, staying until May 1973, when it returned to Crewe.

 

The earliest transfers to the WR thereafter appear to be 401 in July 1973 and 402 in November 1973, both to Bath Road. Harris shows the renumbering dates as February 1974 and April 1974 respectively.

 

Thereafter 404 to BR January 1974, renumbered 2nd February 1974, with 405 to BR March 1974, renumbered 21st August 1974.

 

411 & 413 are both shown as renumbered in the month of transfer, February and May 1974 respectively, and otherwise the renumbering was whilst still on the LMR.

 

Out of interest the first TOPS renumbering is given on 436, and dated 28th October 1973, somewhat earlier than I would have guessed if asked.

 

I'd be delighted for someone to recheck I've read this correctly, and as always photographic evidence would be very reassuring!

 

John.

 

 

Edit - Adrian and I have obviously done this at the same time. However I wonder if he has used the first, shorter edition (definitely one of my Desert Island collection), as the fuller multi volume one does have dates as noted.

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Edit - Adrian and I have obviously done this at the same time. However I wonder if he has used the first, shorter edition (definitely one of my Desert Island collection), as the fuller multi volume one does have dates as noted.

 

John,

I used the multi-volume 3rd edition, but was doing while the work computer was processing some data, so time was against me. The "lack of dates" refers to 411 & 413 being renumbered and transferred the same month, but without an actual date for the transfer. My shorthand to compensate for lack of time!

Looking at the dates several would be quite rare to be recorded on film running on the WR with 4xx numbers, given their availability and photographers aversion to the new (be it diesels, D400s, HSTs, and no doubt in a year or two, Hitachi SETs).

I have 402 in my WR fleet, in a rather oily condition. With head codes displayed, offset "  402" numbers (no D) and dark coloured multiple working boxes it looks the part and defines the era, although I must admit I prefer them in large logo!  

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This is interesting.

The only photos I can recall seeing of un-renumbered ones are of 401 and 400 when newly transferred for crew training to Bath Road. I am a little suspicious of both TOPS application dates (despite Harris doing a fantastic job), and depot re-allocation dates. I seem to recall the LMR were pretty keen to get rid of them initially (they however hung onto the last few for ages!). I do wonder if re-allocation dates were issued when still on the LMR, especially if they were in Crewe Works.

 

Can we have some actual 'logs' of observations please?

 

I also think anyone with a camera would be 'keen as mustard' to record them on the WR, after all anything new was keenly snapped.

 

Finally what about the RCTS and other maonthly mags - these were always keen to record details.

 

Tony 

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The only photos I can recall seeing of un-renumbered ones are of 401 and 400 when newly transferred for crew training to Bath Road. I am a little suspicious of both TOPS application dates (despite Harris doing a fantastic job), and depot re-allocation dates. I seem to recall the LMR were pretty keen to get rid of them initially (they however hung onto the last few for ages!). I do wonder if re-allocation dates were issued when still on the LMR, especially if they were in Crewe Works.

 

Can we have some actual 'logs' of observations please?

 

I also think anyone with a camera would be 'keen as mustard' to record them on the WR, after all anything new was keenly snapped.

 

Finally what about the RCTS and other maonthly mags - these were always keen to record details.

 

Tony 

 

 

The first one that I saw was D401 at Paddington on 14th Aug 1973.

 

I have a pretty uninspiring photo of it taken on that day.  

 

 

post-4474-0-53897900-1439908688_thumb.jpg

 

 

I saw it again at Slough on 19th, 25th and 26th October.

 

I first saw D402 at Slough on 29th March 1974, and again on Apr 5th.

 

Women tended to take over my attentions for the next 15 months or so, and my records have a big gap from mid-74 to late-75.

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401 and 402 were both used by Old Oak as crew training locos when they arrived there from Crewe. 402 ended up dumped at Willesden TMD on at least two occasions when the Old Oak men aboard gave up trying to sort out a recurring failure! They were using it to shunt Willesden Sou' West Sidings at the time and just walked back to Old Oak.

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Some photos of 401 in Andy Kirkham's Temple Meads gallery here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52554553@N06/albums/72157636830588524

 

The very first train I caught from Bristol Parkway was in the summer of 1973 when my mum took us kids to W-S-M. Guess what hauled us - a newly arrived class 50, I've no idea which one though.

Neil

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Some photos of 401 in Andy Kirkham's Temple Meads gallery here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/52554553@N06/albums/72157636830588524

 

The very first train I caught from Bristol Parkway was in the summer of 1973 when my mum took us kids to W-S-M. Guess what hauled us - a newly arrived class 50, I've no idea which one though.

Neil

 

 

If the date of the D1069 D401 photo is correct, then the Roger Harris quoted date of renumbering to 50001 is wrong.

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That's the shot Brian. I used to be like a kid in a sweet shop saving pics from the web, now I try to include a bit more info in the file name so I can find them again. One learns as one goes along. The Chippenham shot is https://www.flickr.com/photos/52554553@N06/10421775494/ another of Andy Kirkham's.

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If the date of the D1069 D401 photo is correct, then the Roger Harris quoted date of renumbering to 50001 is wrong.

I'm sure Andy's date is correct. I've recently won an eBay slide dated which puts out "arrival at Swindon for disposal" for D1026, D1052 and D1059. So I always take such published dates with a pinch of salt.

Neil

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I'm sure Andy's date is correct. I've recently won an eBay slide dated which puts out "arrival at Swindon for disposal" for D1026, D1052 and D1059. So I always take such published dates with a pinch of salt.

Neil

I've just come across this thread and I should say that I've recently been reconsidering the dates of some of my slides. The one with 1069, 401 and the Peak belongs to a batch that has the Kodak processing date of MAR 74, but I've come to the conclusion - influenced by the state of foliage in the pictures - that this film (along with others stamped FEB 74) was actually exposed in late summer/early autumn of 1973.

 

I don't know why the processing should have been so delayed; like anyone else, I would have been eager to see my pictures as soon as possible. But I seem to remember that there was a strike at the Hemel Hepstead plant some time in the seventies, so perhaps that has something to do with it.

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According to my records, five Class 50s ran on the WR with pre-TOPS numbering:

 

400 to WR 10/72; renumbered 2/74

401 to WR   7/73; renumbered 4/74

402 to WR 11/73; renumbered 4/74

404 to WR   1/74; renumbered 2/74

405 to WR   3/74; renumbered 8/74

 

In addition, two Class 50s were renumbered the same month as their transfer to the WR:

 

411 to WR   2/74; renumbered 2/74

413 to WR   5/74; renumbered 5/74

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But I seem to remember that there was a strike at the Hemel Hepstead plant some time in the seventies, so perhaps that has something to do with it.

 

The notorious strike involved the Grunwick film processing laboratories, in Willesden, and lasted for two years between 1976 and 1978. I think there was a link to Hemel Hempstead (Head Office perhaps?) but I can't remember what it was.

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According to my records, five Class 50s ran on the WR with pre-TOPS numbering:

 

400 to WR 10/72; renumbered 2/74

401 to WR   7/73; renumbered 4/74

402 to WR 11/73; renumbered 4/74

404 to WR   1/74; renumbered 2/74

405 to WR   3/74; renumbered 8/74

 

In addition, two Class 50s were renumbered the same month as their transfer to the WR:

 

411 to WR   2/74; renumbered 2/74

413 to WR   5/74; renumbered 5/74

Hi Peter

 

That is a great list.

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