Pacers coupled to Sprinters in regular workings?

[jessy1692]

Fairly common on the Leeds Harrogate York circuit, you can hear the groans from the waiting passengers in Harrogate when a 142 comes squealing in so will invariably pile into the attached 150

[Merfyn Jones]

In their early days the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch often had a 150 + 142 combination until such times that the 142s got banned from the branch.​

[Fat Controller]

Sometimes encountered on the Penarth branch, most usually on Saturdays.

[D854_Tiger]

I used to work sprinter/pacer combo's quite often when i worked at FNW, the key thing to remember when driving from the 90 mph max 158 is that you have a 75mph unit on the rear, would be a lively ride for the passengers on it at 90 (and it has happened!)

 

Similarly 168/165 combos are the same

 

 

Round my way (London Midland), they regularly combine Turbostar class 170s and class 153s where I believe an even bigger top speed mis-match exists 100 mph and 75 mph.

 

This also suggests a Turbostar could, in theory, work in tandem with a Pacer, although I've never heard of it.

[Glorious NSE]

This also suggests a Turbostar could, in theory, work in tandem with a Pacer, although I've never heard of it.

 

170s should be compatible AFAIK? Likely the only reason it hasn't is that the operators running Pacers don't operate Turbostars, and vice-versa...

Edited August 26, 2015 by Glorious NSE

[leopardml2341]

 

 

This also suggests a Turbostar could, in theory, work in tandem with a Pacer, although I've never heard of it.

 

 

170s should be compatible AFAIK? Likely the only reason it hasn't is that the operators running Pacers don't operate Turbostars, and vice-versa...

 Neither is true I'm sorry to say, 14x units cannot work in multiple with any DMU with 'enhanced emergency braking' - it's all to do with the electrical interlock wiring of the emergency brake being different.

[big jim]

A combo ive not seen before until today, 170/158 in Edinburgh

[frobisher]

A combo ive not seen before until today, 170/158 in Edinburgh

Very common on the services up through Dundee from my observations. Which services in particular I couldn't say though.

[JDW]

Yep, its common up to Aberdeen, 5 car 158+170 sets.  

 

I'm led to believe there's a peak time 8-car 170+170+158, though one of the units only works to Dyce (I think, maybe Inverurie), the others carry on north.  I stand to be corrected though!

[SRman]

SouthWest Trains used to run class 159s and 170s in multiple, before swapping the 170s for refurbished 158 units.

[Barry O]

I used to see 158/pacer combos on the s&C. The pacers then turned up in Barrow complete with SYPTE stickers. They ran on the coastal route to Carlisle. Someone must then have hung them on the back of a train to Leeds then they did a Leeds Barnsley service on their own.

 

Happy Days as going north out of Barrow has some wicked curves which did provide a lot of wheel grinding noises

[cheesysmith]

IIRC there was a problem with multi working 170s with BR 2nd gen DMUs when first introduced. Porterbrook had specifically made sure that the first DMUs ordered under privatisation were compatible with the older stock. But they made sure the MU equipment follow the BR spec, but it turns out BR units didn't follow the spec, and the result was you could MU with BR spec DMUs but only with the 170 leading. There was a operating notice to this effect posted, just after privatisation.

[cravensdmufan]

When I saw this, I wondered how long it would be before the criticism of the Pacer's started.

 (POST #14).

 

People are always moaning about these units. They were designed as cheap to build, cheap to operate units. Don't blame the designers that the privatised world is sending them on 100+ mile main line journeys- they were never designed for that.

 

Certain routes, like the North York/ Esk Valley, were in real danger of closure in the 1980s and it was only these four wheeled boxes that managed to keep them open. So, they're a little rough ride- but better than having the line ripped up and turned into a cycle lane.

 

People moaning about them are akin to people who buy a Vauxhall Corsa to do regular long distance motorway commuting and then moan it's not comfortable enough.

 

Back to the OP- the Esk Valley often has a 14X stuck at the back of a 156 for the first or last journey.

What I guess would have been a Class 156 substitute working, on 14 May 1990 142 017 worked the 12.54 Liverpool to Great Yarmouth throughout!

 

Anyone doing the whole journey must have needed a full week by the seaside to recover!

 

Back to the OP, yes I remember 156 and 142 combinations on the S&C in BR Provincial and Regional Railways days.

[jmh67]

I've only joined recently, and just stumbled across this thread ... I can confirm that pacer-sprinter combinations were running in West Yorkshire at least between 2006 and 2012, in particular on peak-hour services between Leeds and Bradford Interchange (and onwards). Also, the 9:17 (or thereabouts) Manchester Piccadilly - Chester train via Knutsford used to consist of a two-car pacer (142) and a two-car sprinter (usually a 150), although the latter ran empty, and only the pacer in front was open to passengers. At least that's how it was on Mondays. They must have needed that sprinter desperately somewhere, or else this train would not have left half an hour late one snowy day, only after a railway worker had been busy with a stiff brush and two cans of de-icing spray to clean the couplers, so that the two units could hook up ...

 

Martin

[MarkC]

Hi,

 

While reading the latest Railtalk magazine I stumbled across a photo of a Sprinter coupled to a Pacer:

http://www.railtalk.org/magazine/issue107.pdf#page=116

 

I have seen pictures and at least one video of a Pacer coupled to a Sprinter DMU before, but I wonder if there is or has been any regular workings. They look very mismatching but are perfectly coupling compatible.

 

Any region, era, operator or specific Class of DMU is appreciated. I am looking forward to your comments.

 

Regards

Felix

The last evening 'local' train south off Newcastle was regularly a Pacer/Sprinter combo when I used it, certainly up to the middle of last year. It's still probably that formation though - Northern aren't exactly blessed with more up to date stock...

[SHMD]

The 16:57 M.Vic. to Huddersfield has a %50 chance of being either two 142s or a 150+142.

The M..Vic to Stalybridge (and return) diagram is also so blessed/cursed*.

 

 

Kev.

(* Delete as appropriate.)

[Guest eddie reffin]

Yep, its common up to Aberdeen, 5 car 158+170 sets.

 

I'm led to believe there's a peak time 8-car 170+170+158, though one of the units only works to Dyce (I think, maybe Inverurie), the others carry on north. I stand to be corrected though!

Hi, it's a seven car that runs. A 170 runs a Glasgow-Inverness service via Aberdeen. On reaching Aberdeen a 4 car is added to the back. The 7 car runs to Inverurie where a 158 is detached leaving 5 to carry on to Inverness arriving at 1940. We detach the remaining 158 and it becomes that nights exam set at IS depot.

Dyce station can only take 7 coaches in the platform so anything over that would require one unit locked out of use.

 

HTH

Eddie

Yep, its common up to Aberdeen, 5 car 158+170 sets.

 

I'm led to believe there's a peak time 8-car 170+170+158, though one of the units only works to Dyce (I think, maybe Inverurie), the others carry on north. I stand to be corrected though!

Hi, it's a seven car that runs. A 170 runs a Glasgow-Inverness service via Aberdeen. On reaching Aberdeen a 4 car is added to the back. The 7 car runs to Inverurie where a 158 is detached leaving 5 to carry on to Inverness arriving at 1940. We detach the remaining 158 and it becomes that nights exam set at IS depot.

Dyce station can only take 7 coaches in the platform so anything over that would require one unit locked out of use.

 

HTH

Eddie

[great central]

A combo ive not seen before until today, 170/158 in Edinburgh

 

Very common In Central Trains days, one of the morning Nottingham-Liverpools was digrammed as such I think, although to be fair 158 and 170 were swapped about freely.

[KeithHC]

Also seen in West Wales both in 150 + 143 and 153 + 143. I have seen both combinations working on Whitland Pembroke Dock services.

 

Keith HC

[DOCJACOB]

Not unknown in the Grimsby area either.

 

With another colour variant and one a long way from home.

 

2 images at Brocklesby Station and one Melton Ross circa late 1989 or early 1990

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

As previously mentioned it's very common to see Northern Rail liveried 142s, 144s, 150s working in multi as two sets on the Leeds to Harrogate line.

 

However Monday made a first for me as the solitary unit taking me into Leeds was a Northern Rail 158 namely 158842. I have been travelling on these trains six times a week for the past six months and it has never been a 158 so I am guessing there must be a shortage of 142s, 144s and 150s at the moment.

[sir douglas]

its regular between leeds and sheffield

[31A]

As previously mentioned it's very common to see Northern Rail liveried 142s, 144s, 150s working in multi as two sets on the Leeds to Harrogate line.

 

However Monday made a first for me as the solitary unit taking me into Leeds was a Northern Rail 158 namely 158842. I have been travelling on these trains six times a week for the past six months and it has never been a 158 so I am guessing there must be a shortage of 142s, 144s and 150s at the moment.

 

There's been a Leeds-York via Harrogate & return diagram for a 158 in the early morning for many years; it's a couple of years now since I retired and I may have lost touch a bit but I think the return working would be the train that is now 0754 from York, due Leeds 0906.  In which case the inward working to York would be  0631 Leeds-York.  When I was being trained as a Guard, there was a rumour amongst train crew that this was to give the managers based at the HQ offices in York a nice train to go to work on!

[Neil]

When introduced (1985/1986) it was very common for 150/1 plus 142 's to run Manchester-North Wales services. However, I believe it It was causuing havoc with the original gearboxes on the 142's, so ceased as soon as they had sufficient 150's to double up with. Not sure how common it was since then, though recently (July),  a Northern Rail Blackpool - York train I travelled on had a 142 added to the front at Leeds, and was opened up to take passengers, even though it was probably a positioning move.

No doubt more learned folk can fill in the gap from 87 to'15!!

 

Not just Manchester - North Wales, 150/1 plus 142 combos were seen on Scarborough - North Wales trains too. At least the view from the Pacer would have been better that that from its companion.

[Coryton]

Not just Manchester - North Wales, 150/1 plus 142 combos were seen on Scarborough - North Wales trains too. At least the view from the Pacer would have been better that that from its companion.

 

I think nobody has mentioned this before, but 150+14x combinations are standard on the Cardiff Valley Line services.

 

It is extremely rare to see two 150's coupled together, but they often run in multiple with a Pacer. 

 

I don't know the reason but assume that they want to spread the benefit of the greater seating capacity of a Sprinter around as many trains as possible.

 

On the Valley Lines, they don't get much use out of the end-corridor gangways on the 150's. Or the 153's, which I have only ever seen run as single units.