srihaggis Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 All, Apologies if this has been covered previously, the answers I have been finding do not seem conclusive to what I am trying to find out: I am building a layout, in DCC. For the first time i'm going to add point motors (I never got round to them on previous layouts), but I wish to use them in the traditional sense of using switches (e.g. not via the controller via a decoder number). I am considering DCC Concepts Slow action type. I note that they produce a DCC and an Analogue version. Can anyone advise a dummy (i.e. my self), how I can go about getting my DCC layout to work with traditional switches, and specify which type of slow action to use for the method? Many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted September 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2015 When you say traditional switches, do you mean simple non-digital switches (as opposed to via a DCC controller) or do you mean using old-fashioned-signalbox style levers to operate the points? I understood it one way at first, then as I thought about it, wasn't sure if I'd misunderstood. Anyway, if its the former, I am in the process of building a small depot layout, the locos are DCC controlled (but with traditional isolating sections mixed in to allow a couple of DC locos to stand safely), but the points are powered the old fashioned way through push to make switches, just because it was easier, I had a suitable switch panel handy, and the switches cost a few pounds for all of them from Maplins. If its a smallish layout, I don't really think DCC is necessary, unless you want to be able to control them from wherever you are standing, which is more likely on a large layout, or you want to pre-programme a set route or routes into the system for computerised route setting. Otherwise, its just as easy to use a cheap simple switch, be it push buttons on a track diagram or levers in a signalbox style layout. As far as the DCC Concepts switches are concerned, I've heard good things about them, but never used one myself, I'm sure someone will be along shortly though who can tell you more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I've a DCC controlled layout for running. However for the point operation I have used Tortoise motors operated by switches from a standard 12vDC supply. I just have a bank of switches with number labels below referrng to numbers on a track diagram. There is no electrical connection between the DCC track supply circuits and the point motor supply. However I do use the auxiliary contacts on the Tortoise to switch the Peco live frog points.Just be careful that there is no accidental bridge between the DCC/track power and the point motor supply. You would need the analogue version for the scenario that you describe. You would need two independent power supplies one for whatever the DCC system needs and the other for the point motor power. Hope that helps John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
srihaggis Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Thanks for the replies chaps! the layout its self will be a large portable layout. I envisage going down the digitrax route next year. John, which switches do you use if you don't mind me asking? I've just placed an order for the slow-action point motors in analogue, so now a case of putting the jigsaw puzzle together Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Not what the OP is asking, but just as an aside in order to clear up any misunderstanding..... Note that DCC control of points (and route setting) is not limited to using a DCC handset or console, or limited to punching in addresses. Nor is it limited to the use of computer software. Ordinary analogue switches or buttons on a switch or mimic panel can be used to operate points via DCC. You could even use mini point levers instead. All it needs is a suitable interface module (there are now a few available or in the pipeline) to connect your panel and switches to the DCC system. The new DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha module (example price £51), can be used to connect up switches, buttons, levers and even stud and probe for controlling points by DCC. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted September 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2015 One of our club members gave a talk on converting his exhibition layout (about a 10' circular) to DCC. He said that if he had to do it again, he would leave the point operation as it was; there weren't enough of them to benefit from the effort to DCC them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Unless you prefer the engine driver to throw the points vs. the signal man, then DCC control of points has no particular advantage, but typically requires a quite large cost increase. Stall point motors are relatively inexpensive, and toggle switches and doorbell wire to connect them certainly are. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Thanks for the replies chaps! the layout its self will be a large portable layout. I envisage going down the digitrax route next year. John, which switches do you use if you don't mind me asking? I've just placed an order for the slow-action point motors in analogue, so now a case of putting the jigsaw puzzle together I use double pole changeover switches of the sub-miniature type that is often sold at shows. They have six terminal tags and are referred to as 'on-on' type A typical one is that sold by Maplins see here:- http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/sub-miniature-toggle-switch-e-on-on-dpdt-fh04e These can usually be found for less at shows.but try to avoid the really cheap ones, they don't always stand up to use for long.. hope that helps John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
srihaggis Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Thanks all for the replies. I'm liking the idea of a strict separation of track power and points/signal power. John, the switch you link to is exactly what i had envisaged using on a panel diagram, so should do the trick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I would be interested to learn whether the DCC Concepts motors are worth the extra money compared to the standard Tortoise switch, which is available at serious discount in bulk. I have only used Tortoise in bulk, and found them to be incredibly reliable and very easy to install, but have also used a few Minx Microdrives (on DC feed) which are great for constrained space applications but pricey, although also utterly reliable. You may want to peruse this http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Page697.htm edit to correct web link Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orford Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I use Cobalt non-DCC motors exclusively on Orford (which is otherwise DCC controlled with sound for the actual running of trains). In my experience Cobalts are far superior to Tortoise, being not much more than half the size and FAR quieter in operation. Also NO soldering is needed with Cobalts. If you log on to the DCC concepts web site you can download and save/print a fully illustrated installation manual which shows quite clearly and simply how to wire them for analogue using simple sub-miniature switches from the likes of Maplins, etc. The best way of powering them is to use a 'wall-wart' plug in 'adaptor' but DO ENSURE that you buy a 'smoothed' version which guarantees a stable voltage supply.....may cost you a few quid more but well worth it One other tip - despite what DCC Concepts say (and have repeated to me several times) I personally find they work much more reliably and quietly on a 6 or 7 volt DC supply, than the recommended 9 volt DC. Most wall-wart-type adaptor/transformers can be set for a variety of different voltages. After sales support from DCC Concepts is also superb with any faulty motors (or ones which might become faulty) being replaced without question, in my personal experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 There is no electrical connection between the DCC track supply circuits and the point motor supply. However I do use the auxiliary contacts on the Tortoise to switch the Peco live frog points.Just be careful that there is no accidental bridge between the DCC/track power and the point motor supply. You would need two independent power supplies one for whatever the DCC system needs and the other for the point motor power. Hope that helps John Being dumb (or over cautious) can I just clarify the degree of independence. I am about to convert a small DC layout to DCC with sound using a Lenz LH100 for engine control only. The Hoffman point motors will continue to be controlled by sub-miniature switches. All wiring and track was laid with DCC in mind. My present transformer is an On-Track's one providing 2 X 15VAC @ 2.2Amps and I am using one pair of connectors to provide power to the layout for both points and a Gaugemaster Type W hand-held controller. Would the second pair of connectors on the transformer be sufficiently separate for the LH100 or should I use a completely separate transformer? I am assuming the On-Track one has separate transformer windings although it does not say so anywhere. Many thanks, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Being dumb (or over cautious) can I just clarify the degree of independence. I am about to convert a small DC layout to DCC with sound using a Lenz LH100 for engine control only. The Hoffman point motors will continue to be controlled by sub-miniature switches. All wiring and track was laid with DCC in mind. My present transformer is an On-Track's one providing 2 X 15VAC @ 2.2Amps and I am using one pair of connectors to provide power to the layout for both points and a Gaugemaster Type W hand-held controller. Would the second pair of connectors on the transformer be sufficiently separate for the LH100 or should I use a completely separate transformer? I am assuming the On-Track one has separate transformer windings although it does not say so anywhere. Many thanks, Tony I am not familiar with the On-Tracks transformer so cannot comment on that. However my own system uses an NCE Powercab with the supplied 'wall wart' plug in transfromer. I don't have a big layout so the 2amp limitation is not an issue for me. The Tortoise point motors are supplied from the uncontrolled 12vDC output from a Gaugemaster 100M controller. So are totally separate. I prefer to keep the two supplies totally separate, but that's my personal opinion. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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