Zoe Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 As most will know, FGW has now been renamed GWR and after looking on the government intellectual property website, it can be seen that First Greater Western Ltd have trademarked GWR. Does this just cover the logo or does it cover any use of the letters GWR in the context or rail transport? If the latter is the case then could legal action be taken against a model railway or heritage railway for trademark infringement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 They haven't trademarked the letters GWR. They've trademarked the new logo, the Art Deco gWr. The letters in any other form are still free to anyone to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 The GW was keen on basic logos and lettering, hence the 'shirt button"! I can't see much reason for anyone else to pilfer the gWr though. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Details of the trademark, what it applies to and in what areas of business here: https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00003064468 Short version: it's the logo with the big W in the middle, filed in July 2014, for business including "Rail transportation services" and a number of other areas including badges, jewellery, alcoholic drinks, and "meat, fish, poultry and game" (!) Extra edit, a GWR shirtbutton logo trademark is held by the Science Museum (SCMG Enterprises Limited), covering household or kitchen utensils and containers etc, and precious metals and jewellery etc. https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002636701 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I don't think these people have anything to worry about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 You could always say that GWR stands for Gas Works railway !! Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 You could always say that GWR stands for Gas Works railway !! Yes. And "Great Way 'Round" And "Greasy Wet and Rusty" and many others. But we all know it really stands for "God's Wonderful Railway". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I read once that it was the ex Great Central enginemen at Woodford Halse who christened the GWR "Gas Works Railway" and who commented upon inspecting a GWR loco "Look at that Boiler, held up at the front with a couple of broomsticks" !!!!!!!!!!!!! Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Short version: it's the logo with the big W in the middle, filed in July 2014, for business including "Rail transportation services" and a number of other areas including badges, jewellery, alcoholic drinks, and "meat, fish, poultry and game" (!) That may, on the face of it, seem mildly bizarre. But it is, of course, to ensure that they, and they alone, can use it on their catering services. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 That may, on the face of it, seem mildly bizarre. But it is, of course, to ensure that they, and they alone, can use it on their catering services. Yes, it's in one of those catch-all categories - I was cherry-picking for comedy value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted October 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2015 Continuing in that vein, the Science Museum's version (or re-use) of the shirt button logo is listed for use on "electric and non-electric toothbrushes". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted October 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2015 Not being a user of the West of England mainline, I was wondering what this talk of a trademarked GWR logo referred to. For those, like me, who had not seen this logo, it is the one with the big 'W' reproduced below. We need not be shy about posting this image; trademark infringement occurs when a protected mark is used on or in connection with goods or services in a manner likely to cause confusion, deception or mistake about source of the goods/services. Clearly, when one posts the image on a railway enthusiast's website to illustrate a new livery or otherwise comment, there is no question of infringement. However, if lots of people suddenly start trying to buy railway tickets from Andy York, I'll revise that opinion. I rather like this logo. The font is evocative of the old GWR in Grouping days, yet it is new and fresh. Now, if anyone tried to claim intellectual property and exclusivity over the original shirtbutton design, that would be annoying! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Now, if anyone tried to claim intellectual property and exclusivity over the original shirtbutton design, that would be annoying! As has already been pointed out in this thread, the Science Museum Group has already trademarked it for things that might loosely be described as "merchandise" - the sort of things you might buy in a museum gift shop. But that doesn't apply to its use in transport (eg, on a real railway) or in railway modelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 For comparison, here is the exact logo registered by the Science Museum people (from the link in my earlier post): Seems to me that the width of the white border between the circle and the letters is different to that posted above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted October 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2015 Edwardian wrote: We need not be shy about posting this image; trademark infringement occurs when a protected mark is used on or in connection with goods or services in a manner likely to cause confusion, deception or mistake about source of the goods/services. Unquote I think that may be a rather narrow view. The Accor hotel group successfully sued a number of model makers who produced Wagon Lits (specifically CIWL) coaches and crests. I doubt that there would be any confusion, deception or mistake about the source of the goods. Accor nevertheless won for copywrite and or trademark infringement. To add salt to the wound, they were using without acknowledgement pictures of models of one of the companies they sued to advertise the VSOE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Union Pacific I believe got litigious with model makers too, at least until they realised that the only thing they'd really get was bad publicity. And lots more free adverts for their rivals at train shows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoe Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 For comparison, here is the exact logo registered by the Science Museum people (from the link in my earlier post): GB50000000002636701.jpg Seems to me that the width of the white border between the circle and the letters is different to that posted above. If someone used the original GWR logo though, would the width of the border be enough for a court to rule it not to be infringing the trademark registered by the Science Mueseum? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 If someone used the original GWR logo though, would the width of the border be enough for a court to rule it not to be infringing the trademark registered by the Science Mueseum? No. Broadly speaking (it's a lot more complex when you get into the fine grain of the detail, but that's not really relevant here), if an image is similar enough to a registered trademark that the average person would think it's the same, then as far as the law is concerned it is the same. The actual legislation uses the term "identical or similar" with respect to determining if infringement has taken place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoe Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 The other issue to consider with the original logo is copyright. I have heard arguments before that some logos would not have sufficient artistic creation to qualify for copyright but the London Underground logo uses two simple geometric shapes and TfL say it is subject to copyright: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/suppliers-and-contractors/logo-requests strict rules exist about how the roundel can be implemented, and copyright exists on its reproduction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted October 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2015 But we all know it really stands for "God's Wonderful Railway". There's nothing like a dose of first class humour first thing in the morning to get you going Where's the door..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 For comparison, here is the exact logo registered by the Science Museum people (from the link in my earlier post): GB50000000002636701.jpg Seems to me that the width of the white border between the circle and the letters is different to that posted above. At one time (I remember it in the '60's) the Goodmayes Wheelers Cycling Club from Essex used the same design as a club badge - but without the 'R'. First time I saw it I was slightly confused! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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