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Why are LPG cars banned from the Tunnel?


Metr0Land

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LPG is far more explosive than petrol vapour and as such the consequences of a leak would be far worse. Thus the stuff is banned from the tunnel while petrol is not - although obviously there is the fact that given most motor vehicles use Petrol or diesel, banning petrol powered vehicles would have significant implications fir revenues.

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Interesting, there is no such restriction on LPG powered vehicles on the two pairs of tunnels in Melbourne. There is restriction on trucks carrying 'placarded' loads, which means chemicals of various types (as per the emergency services procedure placard), including LPG tankers.

 

LPG powered vehicles do carry additional red stickers marked 'LPG', which are affixed to the registration plates, front & rear, so that emergency services can easily identify such fitted vehicles. The idea presumably, so that they can invoke different procedures as required.

 

I do remember a volunteer fireman telling me, that generally LPG vehicles are considered safer, because the construction of the cylinder is much stronger than that of a petrol tank, which is much thinner. I assumed he was correct.

 

Edit to add photo.

 

$_35.JPG?set_id=880000500F

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Interesting, there is no such restriction on LPG powered vehicles on the two pairs of tunnels in Melbourne. There is restriction on trucks carrying 'placarded' loads, which means chemicals of various types (as per the emergency services procedure placard), including LPG tankers.

 

LPG powered vehicles do carry additional red stickers marked 'LPG', which are affixed to the registration plates, front & rear, so that emergency services can easily identify such fitted vehicles. The idea presumably, so that they can invoke different procedures as required.

 

I do remember a volunteer fireman telling me, that generally LPG vehicles are considered safer, because the construction of the cylinder is much stronger than that of a petrol tank, which is much thinner. I assumed he was correct.

 

How long are the tunnels - because that may have an impact on what is or is not allowed. In the UK I believe LPG powered vehicles are permitted to go through the Dartford tunnel while in mainland Europe I believe they are banned from some Alpine ones.

 

(The channel tunnel is 26 miles long IIRC)

 

However what you say regarding the strength of the tanks is true - and that has been precisely why LPG vehicles are permitted through Dartford

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How long are the tunnels - because that may have an impact on what is or is not allowed. In the UK I believe LPG powered vehicles are permitted to go through the Dartford tunnel while in mainland Europe I believe they are banned from some Alpine ones.

 

(The channel tunnel is 26 miles long IIRC)

 

However what you say regarding the strength of the tanks is true - and that has been precisely why LPG vehicles are permitted through Dartford

The 2 Eastlink tunnels are 1.6km (1 mile) & the Domain tunnel is also 1.6km, with the Burnley tunnel being 3.4km (2.1 miles).

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Simple point - don't forget that the Channel Tunnel restrictions owe a considerable amount to the legislation which was written very much with the possibility of terrorism taken into account.  Hence numerous trestrictions and security implications which are not exactly paralleled elsewhere.

Also, the design, and its implementation, involved a great deal of input from the Fire Service and others, to a much greater degree than in other major infrastructure projects.

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I work with lpg being a gas fitter hate the stuff it has a wider explosive range than natural gas (gas to air ratio) NG being off the top of my head 15 to 30% gas to air. It ignites at a lower temperature than NG so not so much of a spark required. Burners way hotter than NG is heavier than air so will sink where as NG rises (fun fact if lpg leaks into a basement you can scoop along the ground with a bucket to catch the gas and take it outside being heavier than air it won't escape the bucket)

It also seems to eat seals on boilers quicker than NG on glowworms the main burner seal needs changing every 5 years even though 9/10 they are not 'blowing' but on an lpg boiler normally 5 years 8/10 they are blowing

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It always seemed strange to me that when they ran car carrying trains through the Severn tunnel they insisted on the petrol tanks being emptied. An empty petrol tank contains a volatile vapour making it more dangerous than a full one.

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Look up "BLEVE" on google and you'll have your answer .......................

Any flammable liquid can cause a BLEVE. It's not unique to LPG. The 1960 Cheapside Street explosion in Glasgow was a BLEVE of whisky and rum.

 

Cheers

David

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To be honest the rules are ludicrous. You can take a caravan or camper van with a fixed gas cylinder up to 93 litres through the tunnel, but can't take a car with a 60 litre LPG tank. There is no restriction on LPG cars in the Gotthard or Mont Blanc tunnels, although in MB you have to declare this at the toll point and you get an extra label for the windscreen. Entire trainloads of LPG go through the Gotthard rail tunnel.

 

Cheers

David

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Plenty of road tunnels in France seem to exclude LPG vehicles. I suspect unfamiliarity. Once/if LPG becomes more commonplace then rules will be relaxed. OTOH if you know there are restrictions, does it stop you considering LPG as an option for your vehicle?

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Plenty of road tunnels in France seem to exclude LPG vehicles. I suspect unfamiliarity. Once/if LPG becomes more commonplace then rules will be relaxed.

I find the unfamiliarity bizarre. In Australia it's hard to find a taxi that doesn't run on LPG.

 

Cheers

David

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I find the unfamiliarity bizarre. In Australia it's hard to find a taxi that doesn't run on LPG.CheersDavid

We have LPG buses in Le Mans, where there are no real tunnels that I know of. OTOH Rouen, where the main route from the north is seriously tunneled, would not seem a good place to own an LPG vehicle. Yet.

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It always seemed strange to me that when they ran car carrying trains through the Severn tunnel they insisted on the petrol tanks being emptied. An empty petrol tank contains a volatile vapour making it more dangerous than a full one.

Not correct.  If you look at my post on this thread you will see that, except in the case of motorcycles, 'a quantity of petrol may be left in the tank provided that -'.  In the case of motor cycles that quantity was specified as 'not exceeding one quart', the amount was not specified in the case of cars.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39204-severn-tunnel-pilning-to-stj-car-carrier-service/

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I do remember a volunteer fireman telling me, that generally LPG vehicles are considered safer, because the construction of the cylinder is much stronger than that of a petrol tank, which is much thinner. I assumed he was correct.

 

 

They are, LPG is liquid because it is under pressure and therefore needs to be contained in a pressure vessel. Just compare a pressed steel Jerry can to a Butane or Propane bottle.

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As an aside I believe that most (over 900) NYC buses run on compressed “natural gas".

 

LPG is used mainly in the USA for heat and cooking of houses out in the sticks). Driving around you see various sized white pressurized tanks set away from the residence just about everywhere outside of main conurbations.

 

Best, Pete.

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Not that uncommon in rural areas here either Pete.

 

We're well off the gas grid and are on oil, which is the more popular, but there are several houses with LPG tanks in their gardens. These tanks are owned by the gas supply company (they're not cheap) and are installed as part of a supply agreement.

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Possibly wandering OT (but then I was the OP!) - here in west Wales there's no mains gas.  Heating for most people means a choice of oil or gas, in either case stored in outside tanks.

 

Now here's a thing - until say a year ago, oil was in a never-ending upwards price spiral and many people were seriously thinking of converting to gas (or modern wood chip burners).  We have a number of oil syndicates who use purchasing power to bring down the cost of oil and since we moved here 18 months ago the price of heating oil has dropped by a third (partly due to fall in oil prices and partly due to oil syndicate)  whilst gas......  

 

Our local oil syndicate has a very active 82 year old lady who's a real tiger when dealing with suppliers as she never has less than 25,000 litres to order each month.  Meanwhile people who use gas are stu##ed because they don't own the gas tank and are shackled to a supplier .

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