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If the Gresley P2s made it to late BR unmodified.....


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Here is a question I have been musing over for a while, I have been considering purchasing a secondhand Hornby P2 and repainting it in BR Brunswick with late insignia.  

 

My question is, what do you think the numbering sequence would have been? would they have the same as the rebuilds? or a separate sequence?

 

Pete.

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Thane of Fife was originally renumbered to 994 by the LNER when rebuilt, before being changed to 505. I doubt the P2s would have been 60501 to 60506 as the 605xx series was for A2s.

 

You could give the original P2s the B.R. number series of 60990 - 60995 if you wanted (V2s only went up to 60983). That said the 606xx series was never used (I don't know if any LNER locos were ever due to be 6xx series), so the numbers of 60600 to 60605 could be another idea.

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As I understand it the W1 was not renumbered by the LNER and remained 10000 until BR renumbered it  60700 so I would guess the P2s would have been 700-5 and the W1 renumbered  later, but not to 60700.  As a 6' 8" loco maybe she would have been 60400.

 

If the P2 rebuilds had not been built and been such roaring successes(!) maybe the V2 conversions would not have been done either and the 511 batch of A2s would have been 500 on or more V2s might have been built instead and AH Peppercorn would have been 500 not 525 and the Railways might not have been nationalised.

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My question is, what do you think the numbering sequence would have been? would they have the same as the rebuilds? or a separate sequence?...

You need a full 'no-Unsteady Eddie' scenario for this. So, he doesn't get appointed, Peppercorn takes over. The V2s are built, but a three valve gear solution is developed at some point so there's a V2/2. Replacement of antiquated secondary power is by a revised two cylinder V4, the V5, which is built in hundreds.

 

Post war, the assessment of the P2s which were moved South for heavy haulage on the ECML, is that with revisions a yet better loco is possible,and the boiler has potential for a larger express pacific. So we get a Peppercorn 2-8-2 instead of the A2 pacifics, and Peppercorn's 50 sq ft grate 6'8" pacific can take the now vacant A2 designation. (Mikes were an immense success all around the world, no reason why they should not have become so in the UK with a little more development.)

 

Number them how you like, whoever it was on the staff devised the schemes under Thompson is presumably still around, so it's all in your hands.

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If you go to the thread in the "Hornby" section, P2, then pages 85,86,88 and 92 may provide some inspiration.

 

I don't have my Yeadons to hand, but at least one of the A2/2's, the P2 rebuilds, was photographed in the mid 40's with its 99x number. As has been said that is one option, to assume that the 1946 renumbering never happened, along with the P2's never being rebuilt.

 

John.

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The 100th issue (October) of the Hornby Magazine has a large double page photo of rebuilt W1 and the streamlined P2 in BR Green facing each other.  The locos are quite small and even with the magnifying glass I can not make out the number.  The P2 is definitely BR Green.

 

Mark

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The 100th issue (October) of the Hornby Magazine has a large double page photo of rebuilt W1 and the streamlined P2 in BR Green facing each other.  The locos are quite small and even with the magnifying glass I can not make out the number.  The P2 is definitely BR Green.

 

Mark

 

That streamlined P2 is 60993 Mons Meg, the body being a souped up K's one, and the blue P2 referred to by Chris F above is 60990 Cock of the North in BR blue, an EM'd Hornby railroad one.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Pete,

 

Just playing catch-up. It's great to see you involved in this issue. Green and blue are both good possibilities, but I'd like to to see the green as a particular example. Obviously I'm biased!

 

Can I ask if you are any closer to another layout? (sorry if I missed it elsewhere)

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Pete,

 

Just playing catch-up. It's great to see you involved in this issue. Green and blue are both good possibilities, but I'd like to to see the green as a particular example. Obviously I'm biased!

 

Can I ask if you are any closer to another layout? (sorry if I missed it elsewhere)

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

Hello Tony,

 

If you can call joining Thetford MRC then yes!  :sungum:  

Otherwise, I'm slowly sorting space in the garage, drawing and redrawing plans as you do! I will have similar room as Helensdale, another layout on here, mine will be around 9' x 9' so was thinking an almost circular plan with a flatter fiddle yard to one side, abit like a P2 smokebox door!

I still can't fit Central Station into that area as hard as I might try....so it will have to be something similar to my previous plans for Longhartley which is no bad thing.

 

Pete

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Just noticing this thread. 

 

I looked into the number sequence for the P2 for the same reason. I found that the numbers moved for power classification. A2 were 605xx, W1 for 607xx and V2 for 608xx. That puts P2 in at 606xx. You can find a picture of my engine 60603 Eleventh Earl of Mar, midway through the P2 or ficticious engines thread. I also am considering one in Blue!  

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Thanks all for your replies and views. It would be an interesting 'what if'. Maybe do one in green and one in blue.  I know the A4 looked good in the blue.

Pete.

 

I don't think I'd registered, till a photospread in this month's (Dec) Backtrack, that there were two BR early blue liveries.

The earlier darker 'LNER/GER' blue I thought looked beautiful on the A4. I also reckon it would have withstood UV fade better than the more Caley blue subsequently adopted by BR/RE topbrass.

 

dh

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