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Cork tiles & copydex - where to and where not to...


Dale

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Hi Folks,

 

I am about to start laying the cork tiles which I have chosen to use as a track bed on my 4mm layout and have a couple of questions...

 

Where do I lay the cork?  An odd question which would at first glance, beg a flipant answer but let me expand.  Its a branchline terminus where the track has no descernable shoulder, being ballasted with ash.  On a main line I understand that you would lay a strip of cork under the track but what about at my humble terminus?  Half the track will be buried in DAS in the goods yard to the level of the sleeper tops anyway.  Do I cork the whole baseboard top?  What then, about platforms and buildings, would they be then built on top of the cork as well?

 

I dont want to lay cork everywhere only to try and scrape it up again later as I have to plant a building.

 

On this layout I am using Peco track and will be ballasting after the track has gone down.  I have read about the sound deadening qualities of using copydex as an adhesive, both for laying the cork tiles, track and ballast.  From what I have read so far, this has always been in reference to laying track and ballast at the same time (C&L thin sleepers etc).  Can Copydex be watered down and used on a thicker bed of ballast as per the old faithfull PVA/water 50/50 mix?

 

If I have to use the PVA/Water mix then I might as well skip copydex in securing the tiles too as the hard PVA ballast will transfer the sound.

 

Your thoughts and advice please ladies and gents?

 

D.

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Don't use copydex (or other latex glue) to stick the cork down, if at a later date you drill a hole it will wrap itself around the drill bit and create lumps and bumps. Use a PVA to stick the cork down.

 

I've used latex glue to stick the track down and ballasted straight away, the glue is actually for carpet tiles but works well in this scenario.

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I've used Copydex both above and below the cork sheet and would no longer consider any other method.

Yes, if you drill any holes later you end up with what looks like a miniature condom wrapped around the drill bit, but I've never met the lumps and bumps problem Chris mentions.

 

One thing, don't bother with the easily obtainable tubs of Copydex.  Before you've used much you'll find the brush that's built into the cap won't reach the glue and the air trapped in the pot will soon make the glue itself go manky (which might be the cause of Chris's lumps and bumps)

Instead use tubes of Copydex.  They aren't anything like as easy to get hold of (I have to order mine on-line) and they are rather more expensive, but they are easier and less messy to use than the tubs and because air can't get at the contents they have an immeasurably longer shelf-life.

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I`m tempted to purchase a litre tub of Styccobond F44 adhesive instead of copydex, to stick down my foam trackbed and track, but I`m a bit apprehensive to use it to secure the ballast, as the colour is described as cream /yellow. Does anybody know for certain that it dries clear and what’s its shelf life once opened?

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Thanks for the replies folks.

 

What about the areas to be corked? Should I be corking the whole baseboard top? Just under the track? The area of the goods yard?

 

D.

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If you don't want a shoulder, I suggest you do without the cork altogether.  To some extent it will depend on the thickness of your baseboard - if you are using thin wood, the cork may help cut down on booming but, if you are using thicker wood (9mm or more) I don't think you will get any booming.  I have an extensive 00 gauge layout and started by laying cork tile strips just under the rail and then ballasting.  Later, I installed a gradient with a section of the layout underneath the original and have omitted the cork altogether - I can tell no difference in the running sound of my trains.  I have used dilute PVA in all the ballast and to stick down the cork so the comparison between sections of my layout is valid.  If you want to use cork underlay and not to have a shoulder to the ballast, then it would be simpler to lay the cork over the whole baseboard; the DAS infill will be used instead of ballast in the appropriate areas.  Platforms (and buildings) will need to be made 3mm or so lower if covering the whole baseboard with cork or omitting it altogether.

 

Harold.

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I`m tempted to purchase a litre tub of Styccobond F44 adhesive instead of copydex, to stick down my foam trackbed and track, but I`m a bit apprehensive to use it to secure the ballast, as the colour is described as cream /yellow. Does anybody know for certain that it dries clear and what’s its shelf life once opened?

That is the one I am using ( 3 litres so far!) shelf life is good but needs a good shake each time it's used, I decant just enough into a marg pot and use from there.

 

Not had a problem with the colour, if you look at my layout thread there are some pics of it on there.

 

Word of caution, it is really really sticky so if it gets on your fingers it gets everywhere, it comes off but don't pick your nose/ear/eye etc

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...Word of caution, it is really really sticky so if it gets on your fingers it gets everywhere, it comes off but don't pick your nose/ear/eye etc

 I totally agree with this, having used it to secure a large area of cork flooring at a time when cheap disposable vinyl gloves were not readily available. On answering nature's call quite unthinking mid job, I found myself with used lavatory paper firmly bonded to my fingers.

 

Disposable gloves are a definite must with adhesives of this type.

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Another option to Copydex for cork is good old Evo-stik Impact Adhesive. I used the solvent-free version to stick the cork down to my extruded-polystyrene baseboards, and then used Copydex to stick the track down to that (although there's no reason you couldn't use the solvent-free Evo-Stik there, too)

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That is the one I am using ( 3 litres so far!) shelf life is good but needs a good shake each time it's used, I decant just enough into a marg pot and use from there.

 

Not had a problem with the colour, if you look at my layout thread there are some pics of it on there.

 

Word of caution, it is really really sticky so if it gets on your fingers it gets everywhere, it comes off but don't pick your nose/ear/eye etc

Many thanks for your reassurance regarding my question of the glue affecting the ballast colour and the advice to wear disposable gloves and also to deter from undertaking those unpleasant personal acts you mentioned. Your layout looks great by the way, but it goes to show that all top quality work take its time to produce great results

 

 I totally agree with this, having used it to secure a large area of cork flooring at a time when cheap disposable vinyl gloves were not readily available. On answering nature's call quite unthinking mid job, I found myself with used lavatory paper firmly bonded to my fingers.

 

Disposable gloves are a definite must with adhesives of this type.

Sorry just too much information, good job it wasn`t super glue

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Thanks again for the ongoing copydex discussion gents, some good points raised. Could any one expand on the cork laying aspect of my original question: where to lay the stuff in the first place?

 

Many thanks.

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With regards to buildings, construct them with "foundations" equal to the depth of the cork, then cut out narrow strips for them to slot into. Avoids unsightly gaps.

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I've laid mine over large areas as it's fairly flat topography here, it does help as the turnout tie bar for the Tortoise is below the turnout so I scrape out a small section and then drill a hole.

 

It will also help with the signalling (when I get to it) as again I can put a decent foot on the post and bury it in the cork, same with the buildings.

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Okies, so the current thinking is to cork the lot but dig out as required for buildings? Sounds like a plan...

 

Now what to glue down the cork with? I could use PVA, I could use impact adhesive or I could look at the rubbery road. The one thing I don't want is any chance of the cork parting company from the top of the baseboard except where I am mechanically doing so to foot buildings.

 

D.

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Okies, so the current thinking is to cork the lot but dig out as required for buildings? Sounds like a plan...

 

Now what to glue down the cork with? I could use PVA, I could use impact adhesive or I could look at the rubbery road. The one thing I don't want is any chance of the cork parting company from the top of the baseboard except where I am mechanically doing so to foot buildings.

 

D.

Just a thought, if you have a flooring shop in your area just pop in and ask them what they use for adhesives. We MR types all have our preferences, however pro flooring people maybe have some better ideas? I'm trying to remember how Norman Soloman laid his base and track on the RightTrack DVD but it is out on loan at the moment. I seem to remember him using 3mm  foam and a PVA adhesive (Trade product not off the shelf DIY stuff).

Personally I like both cork and foam, have used both, but only with PVA adhesive. I think that cork is easier to 'decorate'.

Phil  

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Norman Soloman used Febond PVA, Now called Febond PVA The Original, its made by Everbuild.  I believe that the company that made it when Norman used it was taken over it a few years ago. Hence the change of container colour from blue to yellow and it used to be stocked in B&Q. You will have go onto the internet to find your local stockist.

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Even ash ballasted track should have a fosse - an are where rain can drain to and subsequently drain away from.  There may have been exceptions to this, but few and far between, and probably all replaced in the 19th century.  No one wants a flooded track bed. 

 

the edges of your tack base should then have some form of at least shallow ditching for the drainage.  For me, this would indicate the edge of your trackwork will be the limit for the cork

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I think I will opt for the flooring tiles I have got from Wickes as a base for the whole layout, secured with Febond.   There will be areas where i already know the footprint of buildings but some of the cork will have to be removed again as the plan develops.

 

D.

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I staple the cork with a staple gun, and no, I've never had a problem.

Easy to lift as well!

 

I cover the entire base board and build everything on top of the cork, useful for later changes or additions as the boards are left pristine.

 

Track bed can be added with an extra layer, or not, depending what sort of ballast effect you are trying to achieve. :)

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The idea of covering the whole area in cork and then cutting out to slot in buildings sounds great - but I find it very difficult to get the cork up again once it is stuck down, I found that, unless the cork was stuck firmly, there was a tendency for some of the track to become uneven so, I then laid bricks on the cork to ensure it was firmly stuck.  When I then wanted to move the track (I had laid it only under the track), it was the devil's own job to get it up again.  PVA was used as adhesive.

 

Harold.

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