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Unless there is a large industry at the terminus,I would have thought a Class 37 a bit too big to be going to a small country terminus on a regular basis, though some were used on the dairy trains to Felin Fran after the Class 35 Hymeks (not on your list) were withdrawn.

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I've never understood this part of railway modelling.

 

"I am planning to build a model of a railway that did not exist in reality" or "I am supposing ernest marples was prosecuted for fraud before appointing beeching" and then following with "which locomotives should I choose."

 

It seems to me that if you are trying to manufacture a supposed history then who is to say that, as an example, the 27's weren't moved to the West Country to work the lines NOT closed by beeching or that 50's were not move to the Great Central or that the Deltics worked the Caledonian.

 

Clearly some prototypes really would look out of place in some areas- such as ED73's would seem silly in Edinburgh and HST's on a minor branch in East Anglia.

 

If you are modelling a "what if..." then you could extend that to "what if.... then what would run it." Run what YOU want to run. If you really want to be 100% prototypical then choose an exact location at an exact date and then look for photo's. Remember also that locomotives could be allocated to a depot for anything from years to only weeks or months before being moved.

 

Just my tuppence worth of course.

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Most likely a 15, 20, 31 or then depending on exact area though some 14s also made it to the Hull area.

 

26s and 27s were mostly based in Scotland.

Am I right in thinking that the entire Class 27 fleet was allocated to Scotland?

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My knowledge of Eastern Region is feeble, but if I think East Anglian branch in the 60s, the other diesels that would come to mind besides 15 and 31 would be 03/04 and 08, if said branch was in the "lightly laid with barely any traffic" bracket.

 

You could consider setting it on the windswept coast, and inflicting a holiday camp on the locale, thereby justifying Summer Saturday through trains from the Midlands, which might increase variety; double-headed 20s, for instance.

 

Kevin

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Clearly some prototypes really would look out of place in some areas- such as ED73's would seem silly in Edinburgh

 

I

 

Only class 73 are soon going to be an everyday sight at Edinburgh Waverley!

 

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/630/23513603815_9352204824.jpg

 

Regarding class 27s, in the early days D5370 - 5378 were allcated to to Thornaby and D5379 - 5415 to London Cricklewood for Tilbury Boat trains and Cross-London freight services. In the period September to December 1963, some of the Cricklewood allocation were transferred to Leicester and in December 1965 the Thornaby allocation was also nominally transferred to Leicester to join them

 

Jim

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After some initial allocations of 26s to England and 24s in Scotland  The BRCW built 26s and 27s were allocated to Scotland in later years and the similar power 24s and 25s to English sheds mainly due to rationalising the spares and expertise needed to keep them running.   It was slightly illogical in that the 26s and 27s were similar to the southern region allocated 33s.  However in BR days a blue 33 alongside a Blue 26 would have been a very unusual sight.     The sort of branch line mentioned did not survive into the BR blue era.  Most were gone or were dedicated mineral lines  or occasional freight only after 1963 or so.   If it did it was most likely truncated to a former through station.  The Class 14 and 22 were Branch line locos on the WR the class 31s came much later,   33s on the Southern, 24s 25s on the LMR and 17, 20 26 and 27 in Scotland .The 26s outlived the newer 27s.    37s did branch line duty in around Inverness and Elgin Scotland after the 26s went departmental around 1985 but the branches lost their Grain traffic and or closed soon after.  I have no idea what happened in East Anglia or Geordie land.  

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As Jim has rightly pointed out they were initially allocated in several areas, but they all ended up in Scotland in the end and I think it fair to say that they spent more loco-years up there than anywhere else.

Am I right in thinking that the entire Class 27 fleet was allocated to Scotland?

 

For reasons that I am not entirely clear on, large locomotives such as 37's, 40s and 47s could be see on various branch lines in the early 60s on turns from Strafford and March (those I am aware of- I suspect more). Whatever the rationale was behind it, I don't know- shortage of Bo Bo's or that the Co-Co/1Co-Co1's just happened to be diagrammed in the right place at the right time. When I was somewhat younger than I am now, my Dad took me on a cab trip in 'something' with a bonnet- EE but no idea how many axles to drop off 2 wagons and a van somewhere in 'very flat' land. I don't know if this was a long term thing or not, but certainly one summer that I know of.

My knowledge of Eastern Region is feeble, but if I think East Anglian branch in the 60s, the other diesels that would come to mind besides 15 and 31 would be 03/04 and 08, if said branch was in the "lightly laid with barely any traffic" bracket.

You could consider setting it on the windswept coast, and inflicting a holiday camp on the locale, thereby justifying Summer Saturday through trains from the Midlands, which might increase variety; double-headed 20s, for instance.

Kevin

 

 

Yes well, they aren't really ED73's any more are they? Far less in common with a 73 than a 57 is with a 47 for example.

Only class 73 are soon going to be an everyday sight at Edinburgh Waverley!

 

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/630/23513603815_9352204824.jpg

 

Regarding class 27s, in the early days D5370 - 5378 were allcated to to Thornaby and D5379 - 5415 to London Cricklewood for Tilbury Boat trains and Cross-London freight services. In the period September to December 1963, some of the Cricklewood allocation were transferred to Leicester and in December 1965 the Thornaby allocation was also nominally transferred to Leicester to join them

 

Jim

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If one is a prototype modeller than it is necessary to try and adopt the area or regions locos and rolling stock one is familiar with or wants to emulate. If however, it is a country branch layout with no particular venue in mind, then anything goes. Common sense dictates what would go where although it is doubtful in Buckfastleigh for instance, one would ever imagine large tender engines and even an HST!

 

Brian.

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Hello Brian

 

I think there are probably very few people modelling (certainly in 4mm) that could run a HST, tender engine or large Co-Co and claim to have "common sense" on their side. I think people under-estimate the real world cost of these trains and the fact that they could only really be justified on main lines- few of us have built a layout that is big enough to justify such trains.

 

But we do it because we like them.

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You just have to check this picture out https://www.flickr.com/photos/actonwellsjunction/9513324578/in/photostream/

 

And, some Class 05 were allocated to ER, Cambridge, for instance.

 

K

Excellent picture and of interest the pub on the left "The White Swan" is still there and is a very popular pub I was in there just before Christmas though all the buildings to the right went to make way for Great Yarmouth court house and a new road layout. The railway also long gone but if you know where to look there are still a lot of tale tale signs as to where its route run. This was back in the day just a freight connection between Yarmouth beach station (M&GNR but now long gone) and Yarmouth Vauxhall station (GER still in use)

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Maybe the best "what if" would be if some logic had been applied to motive power procurement in BR days and instead of building bigger locos to haul smaller trains at the same speeds they had built smaller locos to.....   Quite why no one produced a small 600 or so HP BoBo mechanically like a 73 but with a single cab US Road switcher style with a 75mph capability and a solid reliable power unit is quite beyond my comprehension, but a class 14 body on a pair of 4 wheel bogies would look very nice and could manage 40 odd wagons at low speed and whisk 4 coaches along the main line at a fair lick.    The LMS had a go but it matured as the awful class 15/16s and EE seemed to think an elongated 08 was the last word in ergonomics as they drew the class 20 on the back of a fag packet as a stop gap.  The 17 should have been a winner but two engines for 850 bhp? absolute madness. 

 

Again with "What ifs." a 35/4 with ETH converted form the 35175-35174 batch could be a good branch loco.  Or maybe 52202 Western Wanderer or 55 073 Red Rum could turn up maybe topping and tailing the preserved Cathedral Class no 9055 Notre Dame....   Enough of this nionsense, its bed time

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DCB

 

The simple reason why there were no "low bonnet" road-switchers in main line service in the UK is loading gauge. LMS 10800 and the series-build successors were very clearly Alco RS1 with tweaks, and the SR was toying with similar ideas for light freight use on its SW lines (one got built, and that I'd have a low bonnet, but only 500hp under it), but with engine technology c1945-55 it simply wasn't possible to get the bonnets low enough to see over.

 

In France and Germany, like the US, they could make the cabs taller, so did have some nice road-switchers. This site has stacks of photos showing French equivalents of our 0-6-0DS and S1 etc, and makes apparent how the engine fills the bonnet, and how tall the cabs are

http://www.derbysulzers.com/frenchshunter.html

 

And, when it came to light passenger service, a DEMU/DMMU/DHMU would beat a loco every time, because it avoided the need to run round, and cut straight through "dual manning" arguments - many branch trains had been "push pull" since c1900. Clearest demonstration are the BR(S) DEMUs, with 150-300hp per car and 75mph capability, which did exactly what you are advocating, but more efficiently.

 

Finally, freight: the sort of slow and light loads that <1000hp locos can cope with simply dried-up with the end of "common carrier, wagon load" - hence Class 20s that spent most of their lives couples nose-to-nose, giving a 2000hp unit with incredibly high adhesion, suitable for heavy, but poorly-braked coal trains.

 

I rather like "lightweight" bogie diesels, but if you want to build a layout themed around them, you really need to "go abroad" - I built a layout heavily inspired by the Belfast & Moosehead Lake RR, for instance.

 

Kevin

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37 418

 

I might have misunderstood you, but are you referring, indirectly to the Alco S1 used at Port Talbot? https://www.flickr.com/photos/65480188@N07/6053838130

 

They are living proof of why RS1 (same loco, but with higher-speed trucks and a small bonnet for train heat gear) would have whacked into most bridges in the UK ....... Very tall! The other nice US switcher design in the UK was the BTH-Ford box cabs, used at Dagenham, which come from the generation of locos that preceded the S1. One of those would look lovely on a Suffolk branch line.

 

Kevin

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Near where I live is a branch line, the former Lindsey Light Railway. Access is by reversing in the East Yard, the loco runs round it's train.

 

Trains are fixed rakes of container wagons with containers of waste on them, and were hauled originally by a class 60, now by class 66.

 

The loco runs round the train at the terminus too. http://www.davesrailpics.bravehost.com/gy/immingham2.htm12th picture down.

 

The line has also seen class 20's on steel from the Wharf at Flixborough, and traffic both in, and out of the then Lysaghts steelworks.

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DCB

 

The simple reason why there were no "low bonnet" road-switchers in main line service in the UK is loading gauge. LMS 10800 and the series-build successors were very clearly Alco RS1 with tweaks, and the SR was toying with similar ideas for light freight use on its SW lines (one got built, and that I'd have a low bonnet, but only 500hp under it), but with engine technology c1945-55 it simply wasn't possible to get the bonnets low enough to see over. In France and Germany, like the US, they could make the cabs taller, so did have some nice road-switchers.

 

And, when it came to light passenger service, a DEMU/DMMU/DHMU would beat a loco every time, because it avoided the need to run round, and cut straight through "dual manning" arguments - many branch trains had been "push pull" since c1900. Clearest demonstration are the BR(S) DEMUs, with 150-300hp per car and 75mph capability, which did exactly what you are advocating, but more efficiently.

 

Finally, freight: the sort of slow and light loads that <1000hp locos can cope with simply dried-up with the end of "common carrier, wagon load" - hence Class 20s that spent most of their lives couples nose-to-nose, giving a 2000hp unit with incredibly high adhesion, suitable for heavy, but poorly-braked coal trains.

 

I rather like "lightweight" bogie diesels, but if you want to build a layout themed around them, you really need to "go abroad" - I built a layout heavily inspired by the Belfast & Moosehead Lake RR, for instance.

 

Kevin

You're forgetting about the fact virtually all the type 1 diesels that were built, turned out to be almost junk. The Class 17 in particular, were so bad that another batch of 100 Class 20s, were built as replacements, because at least they were known to be good performers.

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