Guest Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I received a very interesting book this Christmas just gone, entitled "Waterloo to Weymouth by steam into Wessex", full to the brim of images from the late 50 and 60's of the Ex-LSWR Mainline as well as lines which branched off from it. I make no effort to hide the fact I am particularly fond of the M7 Class, and found myself studying the images closely, which threw up a couple of questions regarding regulations to do with Push-Pull services. I found all the images regarding M7's working Push-Pull services to depict the engine with it's bunker to the carriages. As such, I was wondering, was it a rule to have the engines face this way on these services, or are the images just a case of 'luck of the draw', in that the images included only depict the locos working this way around? Secondly, ignoring the various types Push-Pull 2-coach sets pictured, there seems to have been a habit to sandwich a third coach between the loco and P-P coaches. Was this common practice to 'beef-up' the service capacity, and was there any restriction on what coach types were put in the sandwich? Did they have to be specially modified for this use? Thirdly, with reference to P123, were there restrictions on anything being coupled to the front of the engine, while it was pushing with it's bunker towards the coaches? This page holds the only image I can find in which a luggage van has been attached to the rear of the formation, rather than sandwiched in it. Thank you in advance.Regards, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Don't know for sure, there must have been push pull regulations usually in the sectional appendix and local working instructions. Any intermediate coaches would have to be pp fitted, hence parcel vans would have to go on the back of the service train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2016 The Southern Railway Instructions stated that '... as a principle not more than two vehicles should be formed in front of the engine. In certain specified crcumstancesauthorised by the Supt of Operations three vehcles may be propelled. In all cases the propelled vehicles must be fully fitted pull and push vehicles as described ...' (i.e. they must have the cable with a three pin coupler, the normal vacuum brake connections and steam pipe, the regulator control hose pipe, the main storage hose pipe, and the back pressure hose pipe). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 There were a number of loose carriages (i.e. not formed into sets) and utility vans which were fitted with the necessary air and electrical connections to enable them to work within strengthened (to 3 cars) pull-and-push trains. Many of these loose carriages were ex-SE&CR 10-compartment 100-seater thirds which had been built originally with a view to their eventual incorporation in (SE&CR) electric multiple units, but which, ironically, never were, and which were the nearest that the Southern ever came to having a standard non-corridor steam-hauled carriage. Crews preferred to operate pull-and-push trains with the bunkers of their locos next to the carriages, but locos were fitted with the necessary connections at both ends and trains could occasionally be seen with the locos the other way round. Pull-and-push trains did sometimes run with trailing loads, including some scheduled through carriage workings. If the train was being worked with the pull-and-push set leading then the trailing load was necessarily attached behind the locomotive (which was thus in the middle of the train). It wasn't common for Southern pull-and-push trains to be formed with a pull-and-push set both fore and aft of the locomotive but it was permitted and did happen. Indeed, a working could be formed [2-set] [fitted strengthener] [loco] [fitted strengthener] [2-set] making a six-car train in total. There were regular occurrences between Brighton and West Worthing prior to electrification and east from Faversham in the aftermath of the January 1953 floods, doubtless it happened elsewhere on occasion to meet special traffic demands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 A good reference guide is the excellent book by Mike King "An Illustrated History of Southern Pull-Push Stock". There are pictures of the Swanage train with a tail load of the Swanage portion of the Royal Wessex consisting of two BR MK1 coaches. Keith HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodmin Bob Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 The Yeovil Town to Yeovil Junction pull-and-push service (working in push mode) often had a loose Bulleid BCK coupled behind the M7 which would then be shunted on to the rear of a London bound service at Yeovil Junction. The branch formation would be (from front to back) P+P set - M7 (bunker nearest PP set) - loose BCK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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