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2251 Class with 4000 Gallon Collett Tenders?


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I have seen 2251s with 3500 gallon tenders, 3000 gallon tenders and ROD tenders, but no images with Collett 4000 gallon tenders.

 

Did this happen, or if it couldn't, why?  - I understand that the Hawksworth 4000 gallon units did not always couple up to every class, and that the 1000 County tenders were a totally unique breed.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Thank you both.

 

The tender is an oddity, but as we are all discovering, oddities are actually not that rare and all railway companies were full of such occurrences from time to time.

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Thankyou once again. To paraphrase a few posts from that thread:

 

"some were built with 4000 gallon tenders........"

 

The key point in the same sentence being that they never ran with them.  It was not unusual to order tenders to replace those behind other locos and use the second hand tenders (from the loco which got the new tender) with the new build loco.  In this case the new 4000 gal tenders probably would have gone straight behind a Hall, Castle, Star, etc.  with the 2251 getting the 3500 tender from the larger loco.    

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Some of the 2251 were definitely built with 4000 gallon Collett tenders for accountancy purposes.  The tenders were then used behind larger locos as Castles, 47XX, Stars and Halls were running with 3500 gallon tenders, and the 2251 fitted with smaller tenders,  I think 1 2251 ran with a Collett 3500 gallon tender as modelled by Peco, none with a Collett or Hawkesworth 4000 gallon, many with 4000 gallon ROD tenders, many with Churchward 3500 gallon (43xx type) and many with Dean 3000 gallon as per City of Truro and even a 2500 Dean I believe.  

 

The final batches seemed to come out with Collett 3000 gallon (see 3205) and some of these went to Bulldogs.

 

The Hawkesworth 1000 County Tenders were 6" wider than the Hawkesworth Modified Hall/ Castle tenders which is why they stayed with Counties.  Counties were noticeably wider over the cab than Castles Kings etc, The Hornby model is too narrow as is the tender, which is more like the Hall for width.

 

The GW liked the Churchward 3500 gallon tender as they  could pile about 10 tons of coal on one compared to 7 tons  or so on the 4000 gallon

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I have sourced another Churchward 3500 tender, so my original question is now irrelevant.

 

But thanks to all for the informative postings.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I'm not an expert on these, being a Somerset & Dorset fan, but the S&D had a number of 2251 class allocated to Templecombe shed in the 1960s.  There are quite a few colour pictures in the S&D picture books of 3206 attached to what I believe is known as a Collett Intermediate tender (I don't know what capacity this is).   It looks much bigger (higher) than the usual Collett or Churchward tenders attached to what it seems to be most 2251s, ie those modelled by Bachmann, and its not a ROD tender.  3206 was on the S&D from mid 1962 until withdrawl at the end of 1963.

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I'm not an expert on these, being a Somerset & Dorset fan, but the S&D had a number of 2251 class allocated to Templecombe shed in the 1960s.  There are quite a few colour pictures in the S&D picture books of 3206 attached to what I believe is known as a Collett Intermediate tender (I don't know what capacity this is).   It looks much bigger (higher) than the usual Collett or Churchward tenders attached to what it seems to be most 2251s, ie those modelled by Bachmann, and its not a ROD tender.  3206 was on the S&D from mid 1962 until withdrawl at the end of 1963.

The Intermediate is a flat bottomed 3500 gallon tender, visually it has the same height as the Collett 3500 gallon tender (fitted to one version of the Hornby Grange/and to the N gauge Peco 2251 type) but without the fender around the rear.  The Intermediate is different to the "Collett 3500" which was the middle sized Collett tender.  

 Collett tenders came in 3000 gallon (2251) 3500 gallon mainly built for Halls and 4000 gallon (King) varieties.  The 4000 gallon tender's rear fender is around cantrail height on most coaches, and the top of the sides nioticably higher,  The 3500 top of the sides is around cantrail height on most coaches and the 3000 is much lower, around the same height as the Churchward 3500 which has a well tank between the frames hence the greater capacity.   Several RTR Collett tenders sit too low, Hornby Hogwarts Castle and the Mainline 2251 being particularly bad.   The cab footsteps and the footplating on engine and tender should be visually dead in line on all the curved frame 4-6-0s the 43XX 2-6-0, and 0-6-0s   The 28/38XX and various 4-4-0 classes cabs don't line up

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The Intermediate is a flat bottomed 3500 gallon tender,

I beg to differ.

 

The Collett intermediates of 1925/6 diagram A112 ALL had wells. as confirmed by drawings 41428 and 72342. As the intermediates came up for heavy repair/scrapping the tanks were replaced by standard Collett 3,500 bodies with flat bottoms. Here is A112 intermediate no 2376......... the tank has been changed but a peek underneath reveals the space for the well.

post-9992-0-93351300-1454608199_thumb.jpg

 

The intermediates had a tank no bigger than the lower sided 3,500, The sides were just extended upwards to meet the cab frame line of a Castle. Loco crews had to stand in a large trough as the filler was much lower than the sides, making it difficult to get out. I do not usually use a model to illustrate but the horizontal rivet line on the JLTRT intermediate illustrates perfectly where the top of the tank came to.

http://www.justliketherealthing.co.uk/bmz_cache/f/f5496ae8548a912dee51e67f7baf8f9b.image.275x171.JPG

 

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

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