Graham's Caledonian scratchbuild

[agt613]

Studying your photo more closely, I can see that now. I'm at a loss to suggest anything else.

Sandy

I'm trying to change where the smokebox wrapper changes from the round to the straight down with tighter concave curve before the vertical. That might work. I had judged it by eye before. Thanks for putting your mind to it, anyway, Sandy. I'm leaving the top of the cylinders and their accompanying flat top and curve towards the frame for later. Each is tiny in 00 but probably quite crucial to the look of the loco. I don't know how I'm going to make/ source those lubricators.

 

Graham

[jasp]

agt613

Sorry, I have just picked this up.

The kit came from Falcon Brass more than 20 years ago. Probably ex Jidenco so some remedial work needed.

Jim P

[Sandy Harper]

 I don't know how I'm going to make/ source those lubricators.

 

Handrail knobs and wire??

 

Sandy

[jasp]

Caley Coaches have some cast brass lubricators

Jim

[agt613]

My stay in George W Bush’s “Axis of Evil” (Iran) was pleasantness itself. Such lovely people and food and scenery and weather. I also had just enough time to have a first bash at the tender. I took two frame sides of 18 thou brass cut and soldered together and some 10 thou for the footplate. I stuck the drawing of the tender frames on to the brass with the Iranian equivalent of Pritt Stick. Having been under sanctions for years, their economy is a bit like India’s was before liberalisation – everything with its own home-made version. Indeed, most cars on the road seem to be Morris Marina’s of ill memory. My mother bought one, out of loyalty at buying British, but it was keenly committed to rusting everywhere at once and couldn’t be dissuaded. Anyway, Iran seems to have bought the moulds in much the same way as India got the Morris Oxford and a small Fiat.

 

I drilled a 1mm guide hole for the rear axle and will drill it out to 4m for the pinpoint bearings I’ve ordered from Eileen, As in my 55 class, the weight of the tender will bear on the loco’s rear by pivoting on the rear axle with the front one floating in an internal frame. I rough cut the circular and elliptical holes in the frame with a piercing saw. They will be filed to size now at home.

 

I measured out and cut the tender footplate but continued to use the scoring, and bending recently discovered from reading the excellent  thread on “scratch-building the way I do it” by N15class, and the use of tabs from looking at pictures of etched kits. Having thought about it for a while, I decided to install tabs for both the frames (bending downward) and the tender body. I had to cut spaces for the 16mm wheels to pass through the footplate as their oversize flanges need this. I, therefore, decided to use the material out of the four rectangular holes needed for this partly as upward and downward tabs. Those which bend up are one millimetre further out than those bending downward because the top is wider than the chassis. I cut out the inner half of the slot and then used part of the length of the remaining half to bend downwards one millimetre in from the other half which bends upwards – all scored on the correct (opposing) sides. The holes for the wheels are not rectangular but wider at one end for the upward tabs than the other but who cares when it’s hidden inside. While I was at it, I also bent down the front and the buffer beam outer part (the thickness will be suggested at the outer ends later). I cut and scored triangular tabs in mid side and end as further support for the tender top. They are small enough not to threaten the integrity of the 10 thou footplate but will add another point of reference and strength when soldering the top on.

 

The finished article is shown in the picture. The black marker pen used to show up the marking out can still be seen, It will polish off before soldering starts.

 

 

In my unrelenting borrowing from others before me (I wasn’t an academic for nothing), I have read the instructions for Caley Coaches’ tender kits to find out what curve should be on the top corners and how to manage the flare round the curve. Their kits seem to have ‘fingers’ round the curve which are splayed and then filled between with solder to gain the curve, In the same vein as  my cab front, I’ll have a go at this. I'm puzzled though as Caley Coaches instructions recommend 2mm curves at the tender ends. Using Pi x Diameter for the circumference, I get only a little over 6mm. This is then quartered for the corner giving a curved bit of only a little over 1mm; how am I going to cut fingers in such a short length of the side? Unlike CC, I am going to include the flare in the sidesheets rather than adding it later. The photos also suggest that the fare is curved on the 179 along its length. It may just be that it has a protruding beading along the top. Any ideas? If I curve it, the 'fingers' can be curved outwards the same way as the cab front top was curved inwards to form corners which are curved in both length and height.

 

Now for those frame cut-outs, and the side sheets strip.

 

Thanks for following, Graham

Edited May 8, 2016 by agt613

[agt613]

Hi folks, Sorry it’s been a while but I’ve been flitting between jobs around the 179 class Oban Bogie to try to solve problems as they arise rather than have a smooth build. I have abandoned my pre-cut and bent sides of the loco footplate/cab/splashers as they were not helpful. I have cut the cab off and will use it on a more conventional footplate in 10thou brass keeping it attached to the sheet until both the cab and the front connecting rod splasher assembly are soldered on as there is nowhere I can join the two sides together forward of the cab. The front now has each side assembled with a ten thou brass top and 2mm x 1mm L shaped brass strip for the upstands and fixed to a crosspiece as it is immediately above the raised front part of the chassis. I have added the tops of the cylinders as my interpretation of the plan seemed to show them as continuing. However, examining Sandy’s model and my photos in a new light, the horizontal plate on the cylinder tops seem narrower and separate. I'll sort them next. The cab will be soldered on soon and then I will separate the footplate from the sheet.

 

On the tender, the flared top has been easier in practice than in thinking about it. I was able to cut out a strip long enough for three sides and the front tuck in and high enough to form the flared top. This has a scored line on the inside to start the flare. It was bent round a 2mm drill at the corners and then the flared top cut (with scissors) into fingers at the corners. The flare was given a slight outward curve and then the corners were tackled separately. First, I straightened out the ‘fingers’ which had curled up when cut, and then I coated them liberally with solder. They are almost full but the highest part should fill up when the top strip is soldered on as well. Filing to shape isn’t quite finished but it is obviously straightforward.

 

I fitted the handrails on the sides and a top, but that will be mainly covered by the tank filler assembly which seems to be like a squat shed with a hinged, sloping roof. I am assuming that the rear edge of it is the flared top. The drawing certainly seems to show that. There is a little cube at the very rear top of the tender which I assume is the latch for this. Any thoughts?

 

When soldering to the footplate, it was important to have a hidden arrow pointing to the front as it is almost symmetrical. I can’t read the plan for the front very well. Sandy has been helpful with photos of his version but I am not sure whether the front reaches the same height as the sides (less flare) or reaches only half way up. Any thoughts?

 

 

I found the tabs in the footplate very helpful for locating the top but not so helpful for the underframes and wouldn’t use them again. The underframes were cut from two layers of ten thou soldered together and cut out using a photocopy of the elevation plan as a guide. Pinpoint bearings are soldered in for the rear axle and there is a pick-up on this wheel set using phosphor-bronze wire soldered to an isolated section on a sheet of copperclad paxolin which I also used for the chassis stretcher, soldered to the underframes.  I suppose I’ll have to have one on the other side shorted onto the frames so that I can both pick up and return power from the tender. The front axle hangs from an inside frame allowing the weighted body to pivot on the rear axle and bear down on the rear of the locomotive to help with adhesion.

 

Sorry the photos are a bit blurred on magnification.

 

Thanks for following, Graham

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Graham

 

There is a little cube at the very rear top of the tender which I assume is the latch for this. Any thoughts?

 

Could it be a tank vent cover? There would need to be one somewhere!

 

Regards

Sandy

[agt613]

Could be. Thanks

[agt613]

Lots of little jobs completed but nothing much to photograph at present. I shared a problem (post 22) about the relative heights of the smokebox door and the boiler on the cab for the rebuilt version. I had no explanation that I could rest with until just now. I have a 3/4 view photo of the rebuilt 179 which shows that the spectacle plate windows are higher up the front than the drawing of the un-rebuilt version from which I am getting my dimensions. The un-rebuilt's spectacle plate windows start at the same level as the cab handrail but the rebuilt's are slightly higher, almost into the curved roof at the top. This means that I can raise the boiler to the right height without fouling them. It will mean the front is correctly proportioned. I'll have to rebulid the boiler but that isn't much of a problem.

 

Drilling a 5mm hole in thin brass for these windows has proved a problem. I have solved it by forming the surrounds with thin wire wrapped several times round a 5mm drill and then cut with scissors. When 'straightened out' to the round and the flattened so that the ends meet on the same plane, they can be soldered onto the right place and then the inside cut out with a small drill and round files. It's a bit fiddly but seems to work. A brush with a file to flatten them a bit and they are done.

 

Could anyone tell me which way round wash out plugs go? The ones I've bought have a lipped end. Is this outside or inside? Also, any tips on getting handrail knobs all at the right height and in line. The boiler is so bare that they really matter.

 

Has anyone any experience of using Romford's threaded crankpins with the fastening bushes the wrong way round and cut off so they are just a threaded boss/washer? I've tried one and 'fixed' it with black paint. What hope have I that it will stay on in service?

 

Must stop now as a church meeting calls.

 

Thanks for reading, for your interest and for the helpful tips on here and by message. Graham

[agt613]

Hi folks,

 

 

Here's a photo of the chassis with various bits updated. I've made something that looks like the brakegear hydraulic(?) system and soldered it in place between some etched NBR 4mm developments CR tender brake shoes and hangers. I filed the shoes into more of a triangle to match the photos. The whole is quite satisfactory from a reasonable distance (shades of the blind man on a galloping horse). Pickups are nickel silver wire. I've also added sockets at each end for picking up power from the bogie and the tender wheels.

 

The bogie sitting there temporarily is a Hornby M7 spare with smaller wheels. I hope to be able to add mudguards. It sits a little low now and it's one millimetre too long in the wheelbase but I can cope with that.

 

The current problem is getting the footplate to sit level. It's fine at the cab end but the front is 2mm higher. The main problem is getting the slide bars under the splasher for same. I think I may have to deepen them from 2mm to 3mm or even 4mm but that will change the profile of the loco. Any experiences out there of having to change such proportions and the differences they made? I could say "who would notice". But would that be too cavalier?

 

It's two steps forward on one back at the moment. I have really benefited from watching Tony Wright's youtube video on building locos. It's four hours but full of useful tips for re-beginners.

 

Thanks for all your help, advice and encouragement. Best wishes, Graham

[Londontram]

Sorry Graham your moving into Territory that is way beyond my standard of bodging so all I can add is words of encouragement and not advice I'm afraid but I will say you tend to be to hard on your self as its looking really good and well thought out, keep it up. Steve

[agt613]

I mentioned my issue of front height and the slide bars needing to be under the splasher. I have rechecked everything and found that the cylinders were slightly too high. To solve this, I have cut through the frames between the rear support of the slide bar and the support for the rear of the cylinder, pressed down a little and run solder into the cut leaving the front end about 1mm lower. The slidebars give enough stiffness to allow this major surgery. I am now reasonably confident that it won't appear to be doing a wheelie!

 

The next problem is to make sure the coupling rods don't touch the underside of the footplate. I may put some electrical tape under there to isolate them.

 

I now appear to have an intermittent short on the front driving wheels so that will take some thought! It's a fascinating process altogether.

 

Thanks for reading, Graham

Edited June 28, 2016 by agt613

[agt613]

Hi folks,

 

Here is the progress so far.

 

 

The main work has been revisionary on the loco and constructive on the tender. On the loco, I have taken the connecting rod splasher tops off as they were preventing the body from hunkering down far enough. I will make them of plasticard once the main soldering on the superstructure is over. I have made a completely new boiler and smokebox to sit higher up and remodelled a cab front to cope with the boiler's increased height. It all looks about right now I haven't soldered the smokebox to the boiler yet and may not. Once it's soldered in between the frames, it will hold itself. The boiler is held down to the chassis by a bracket--rear-smokebox saddle between the frames. It is 18 thou brass and tapped to receive an 8 BA screw. Once screwed together, the fairly flimsy footplate really stiffens up.

 

On the tender, I have reduced the height of the underframes to bring the footplate to the right height. There are pick-ups on the rear wheels which will be wired up to the motor through a tiny connector from the local electronics shop. The front wheel is free to move up and down so that the weight can bear on the driving axles of the engine. The re is a drawbar made of steel with slots cut in the ends instead of holes drilled, On one end a washer soldered on allows the drawbar to be screwed to the tender floor. It passes through a slot and has a small joinery pin soldered into the front slot which then fits into an L shaped plate added to the loco drawbar with a hole drilled in the bottom. This is rigid in the vertical plane but has some play in the horizontal . I haven't succeeded in passing the power into the loco yet so there must be a fault somewhere.

 

I have added the running boards but haven't fitted their tiny brackets (I may leave them off). Instead, they are soldered to the brass cast axleboxes from Caley Coaches. I haven't fitted brakes. Only one set of coal rails has been added at present but the others are made and ready to fit.

 

It's quite a learning process - very compulsive. My oldest grandson (11) visits from Sweden from tonight for a week and I am hoping to start to build an etched CR 15 ton brakevan from Caley Coaches with him.

 

 Thanks for reading and all the tips through PMs. Graham

 

[agt613]

Just had a diversion in building a CR Brake Van from Caley Coaches. The idea was to teach my oldest grandson how to solder. It might not have been the right choice but it has been a baptism of fire as a first etched kit. I can't recommend too highly using liquid flux. Mine's Carrs No3 but they may all be the same. I tinned the thin strapping while on the fret then, right way round, grandson pressed it into place and I heated it with the iron. Once silvery liquid starts oozing out the tiniest amount, slow movement along the piece fastens it down with hardly a trace on the outer surface. It's a wonderful feeling to get an almost clean join first time.

 

The kit is beautifully made but has generated some challenges. Some notes of warning to novices like me starting it might help. I have found it impossible to use the footboards as provided. I couldn't bend up the tiny rear upstand, In fitting the downhangers into the slots on the footboards, at least two of the bendy-over bits at the bottom fell off (the joining stubs are very difficult to clean off on the very narrow fret). Once on, they made fitting the j-hangers onto the solebars virtually impossible and I cannot get the W-irons plus axleboxes and springs to fit within the foot boards as provided. I will take them off, fit some more fret behind the hangers and refit them with cut-outs to clear the axleboxes. Not protypical, I know, but needs must. They are too flimsy to chop out recesses for the 'boxes as fitted, but taking them off will allow this. I might fix some 2mm angle section at the rear for the upstand as strengthening.

 

I have messed up on the slots into which the body fits on the solebars while attaching the solebar detail layer. Apart from a warning in bold type, it isn't made clear how important these are not just to be kept clear but that the rear layer is exactly in line with the front layer. They are used for tight-fitting tabs to locate the top on the chassis. Having only one usable one has been OK as I've filed the others off and used the L-shaped rebate over the buffer beam ends as the locator. The instructions about fitting the ends of the superstructure inside the sides are difficult to fulfil as it is all so tiny but essential to give enough room for the top to fit on the chassis and the verandah to fit in the superstructure. Some trimming of the bottom to fit was required but, as it's at 90 degrees to the side, it's easy enough. I have left the 1mm square fillet inside the corners off to add it after the verandahs are in place. Much easier, I suspect.

 

I found cellotape helpful to fit the sides and ends together for soldering and it also showed up any strapping that wasn't fully soldered on by pulling it up when released.

I hope this is useful to intended builders. It's a lovely thing.

 

Oh, and what do others do to reduce the amount of tiny parts pinging off into space while handling during construction? They are a pain in the knees!

 

Thanks for following, Graham

[agt613]

Hi foks,

 

Another spurt of activity has finished the coal rails on the tender, provided the splashers (except the rear connecting rod ones), and got the body to sit down on the chassis whilst also working!

 

I've used brass for the front connecting rod splasher and the fronts of the others but laminated plasticard for their tops. This latter was done by wrapping a 4mm strip round a piece of broom handle, holding it with cling film, sitting it in boiling water and then dousing the edges with MEK once it was unravelled and adjusted to the right diameter. I have also fitted beading round the splasher tops using brass wire, bent round said broom handle, soldered on and filed flat. I did the filing while the piece was still attached to the metal sheet. The two for the cab were soldered closely together on a scrap part of said brass sheet, filed and then detached for fitting in place. My liquid flux really proved its worth and the beading provided a good smooth curve, consistent across all four splashers. Here are some photos of the current state of play. It needs a judicious application of filler in various places but that's for another week.

 

Thanks for all the encouragement. Graham

 

 

[agt613]

Hi Folks,

 

Some progress has been made. I have fitted the brake lever onto the footplate on the side of the smokebox, The dome and safety valve are fixed but the chimney is just rested on. It isn't quite right but helps in the photo. I am hoping to get a more suitable chimney from Jim Smellie at Caley Coaches. The outside cylinder skins are on but the step above them is not complete. Splasher tops in plasticard are complete. It even runs!

 

I have added a North British cattle wagon I built in 1970 still awaiting the single brakes. The lettering is all done by hand in the days when my hands were rock steady. Anno Domini and keyboard work have seen to a certain deterioration in that department. I have a fret for the brakes. Do they go at the same end each side or opposite ends?

 

Best wishes all, Graham

[agt613]

It seems that Caley coaches have no chimneys at all and DJH cannot supply me with an 0-4-4 439 class chimney for my 179 Oban bogie unless as a replacement for one in a kit they sold. Can anyone help either with a spare I can buy or by turning one up on a lathe.

[robert17649]

It seems that Caley coaches have no chimneys at all and DJH cannot supply me with an 0-4-4 439 class chimney for my 179 Oban bogie unless as a replacement for one in a kit they sold. Can anyone help either with a spare I can buy or by turning one up on a lathe.

this is a silly question but what does the chimney look like I have several stovepipe types in a box would one match?

[agt613]

Thanks for your generous response, Robert17649. There are some lovely people on this site.  My version has the flared chimney. I have managed to order one from the 482 0-6-0T from SE Finecast which should be near enough for a man on a galloping horse in the dark not to notice the difference!

 

Fitted the pipes for the Westinghouse pump yesterday. Looking good. Sometime I will have to take the decision to fasten together the footplate/cab assembly and the boiler assembly so that I can fill the gaps but that will also make filing the filler to shape more difficult. It's a bit like the decision to leave the EU - point of no return that might have unseen consequences!

 

Best wishes all, Graham

[Londontram]

I'm glad you found an alternative for the chimney Graham I must admit I also tried to use your original source (Who I shall not repeat his name here) when I was looking for a chimney for one of the Dunalastair's I was building but after at first having no response and then finally a rude response gave up and now make my own. As you say the one your getting is so close to the original that few if any would ever know. Steve

[agt613]

Good afternoon from a very sunny, almost tropical North Shields. Just down the road, the sixth best beach in the UK (according to trip advisor), and such lovely sunshine that it will be teaming with children, so a good time to stay at home!

 

More progress. I got a chimney and dome from the 482 Caley Tank from the wonderful Dave Ellis at SE Finecast. They make an amazing difference. I have added the handrails and all the assorted tubes on the boiler assembly. I had to redo the front of the footplate. The side snifter valves (I think that's what the cognoscenti call them) had to be made up from tube (very much following Steve 'Londontram's' example). The cylinder tops that are only fixed to the superstructure are almost finished. Also on are the rather splendid guard irons whose curve leads on from the curve of the chassis where it stands above the front of the footplate. There is some filler to trim, etc. The boiler assembly is still only held on by the screw that fastens all the superstructure to the chassis. It's under the front of the boiler threading into a 8BA nut araldite-d above an L shaped bracket. I have to take the decision to fasten it all together and fill the many gaps but am putting it off a bit.

 

It's all a bit Impressionist compared with some of the modellers on this site who can work to such fine tolerances and absolute squareness. It's an impression of what the 179 Oban bogies were. But I like it.

 

Does anyone know how I can get a hand wheel, about 4mm diameter, 8 eight spokes with four extended (abit like a ship's wheel) for the brake wheel on the tender?

 

Thanks for following and for helpful comments, likes, etc. Graham

Edited August 16, 2016 by agt613

[agt613]

Please could someone help. In the above pics, I have used Caley Coaches snifter valves at the tops of the two pipes that extend from the footplate to the top of the firebox beside the whistle and just in front of the cab. I think these might be wrong. What are these pipes for and what would the thingamys on the end of the pipes be? How can I get them? Would Markits Clack valves be near to correct (in the galloping horse-riding observer context)?

 

Secondly, I note that the chimney is slightly raked backwards. Fine for an ocean liner but not good on a loco. Would it be safe for me to insert  a snug-fitting drill shank and lever the white metal chimney off its araldite-d joint with the smokebox or would it break?

 

Thanks in anticipation. Graham

[Londontram]

First the two pipes coming off the main steal pipe at the top pf the boiler that run down the side of the fire box to below the foot plate are the steam pipes for the injectors which sit on the frames either side between the driving wheels which will be the thingamys your referring too. Here's in this link to my loco thread   http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92190-steves-caledonian-loco-work-bench/?p=2075879 is the simple ones I made for my jumbo which is just a basic representative of the injector made from some off cuts of brass tube and rod  (See the second and fifth pictures) Bit of a bodge but as you say a blind man on a galloping horse....

   I would have thought you should be able to remove the chimney this way if your careful just keep an eye on the smokebox top to make sure that doesn't deform instead though you might be able to get away with a slight bend to straighten the chimney this way without removing it, something thin inserted in the join as you "lever" the chimney may help to brake the seal

Edited August 22, 2016 by Londontram

[jasp]

One way of softening epoxy, especially the 5 minute stuff, is to heat it with a soldering iron at relatively low temperature, around 100-120 deg C. and a little pressure on the item to be debonded.

Easy with a temperature controlled iron.

Jim

[jrg1]

It is easy to solder whitemetal components with a temperature controlled iron-I use Carr's 90 degree solder.  The brass smokebox would be tinned with 145 or 188 solder, the chimney tinned with 90 degree, and then soldered up with more 90 degree.  Desoldering justs means dunking in boiling water, plus when soldering like this, I have a bit for each type of solder