Some questions about SPAs early 90s.

[Tinsley Snail]

Hi,

 

Hoping some air brake wagon experts can help me please?

 

I came across this fantastic undated image taken at Tinsley - https://www.flickr.com/photos/26871365@N04/20474783170/in/album-72157657380645432/

 

What interests me is that the SPAs appear to have the fixed bits that the doors fasten to (stanchions?) painted in a lime green(?) colour. I cannot recall seeing this back in the day, and wondered from what year the wagons began to be painted as such?

 

Also, some of the SPAs appear to have a black painted panel with a white circle or square(?) painted in the centre. Does anybody know what this was for?

 

And finally, the reason I found this image is because I am searching for images of SPAs fitted with cradles for strip coil traffic. I know that some were fitted with the same steel built cradles used on BAAs, but I am sure I have read somewhere that some had wooden cradles fitted for this traffic? Does anybody have any info/images at all?

 

Many thanks,

 

Marcus

 

 

[Fat Controller]

The door stanchions were removable, I believe. That curious green colour is the colour BR used as a primer/undercoat; it was more usually seen on things like replacement buffers ( http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralclaspvb/h22ca69e0#h22ca69e0 ). The white square was often to be seen on BR wagons- sometimes on a black background, sometimes not. I have seen it with a painted number in it, though I've no idea of its significance. I haven't found any photos of the wooden cradles in the usual places, but photos taken from a high enough angle to show such things are fairly scarce.

[jonny777]

Paul Bartlett has this one, but the cradles are not visible so the caption must be taken on trust.

 

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsparevenueconvert/h3e43f229#h3e43f229

[Tinsley Snail]

Thanks to the both of you.

 

Getting photos of the insides of the wagons is proving extremely difficult (but fun too, I do love a bit of research! lol).

 

There is a tantalizing view at 10;44 on this video, but it is too difficult to see clearly what type of cradles are fitted (Also, check how tightly the coils are packed on the first BAA!)

 

 

It is interesting to note that all the SPAs in the flickr image have the green door stanchions, even the freshly painted ones.

 

Now to begin the search for suitable paint to represent the primer....

Edited April 23, 2016 by Tinsley Snail

[Fat Controller]

There was a period in the mid-1970s when a lot of Oleo buffers appeared in this colour; I was doing some models of MTVs, and used a Humbrol paint that was sold as being used for undercarriages (and possibly cockpit interiors) of US military aircraft. Given that one firm who supplied buffers, also made aircraft landing gear, this isn't as improbable as it seems.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Fat Controller

[PenrithBeacon]

If it is the colour used on aircraft, and it might well be, see http://www.modelsrgo.co.uk/xtracolor-yellow-zinc-chromate-14ml.html , http://www.creativemodels.co.uk/paint_conversion.php/manufacturers_id/2/page/2 , http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=42685 , http://ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_humbrolauthentic.htm .

 

Regards

[russ p]

That film was superb, brought back lots of happy memories as l used to work into Tinsley a lot during that period. I even remember the white manta GTE that appears in one of the shots!

[Fat Controller]

If it is the colour used on aircraft, and it might well be, see http://www.modelsrgo.co.uk/xtracolor-yellow-zinc-chromate-14ml.html , http://www.creativemodels.co.uk/paint_conversion.php/manufacturers_id/2/page/2 , http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=42685 , http://ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_humbrolauthentic.htm .

 

Regards

Closer to the green zinc chromate which is linked in the above. Humbrol 'Beige Green' 90 (AA0998, whatever that means)looks about right for me.

[bazjones1711]

Hi,

 

Hoping some air brake wagon experts can help me please?

 

I came across this fantastic undated image taken at Tinsley - https://www.flickr.com/photos/26871365@N04/20474783170/in/album-72157657380645432/

 

What interests me is that the SPAs appear to have the fixed bits that the doors fasten to (stanchions?) painted in a lime green(?) colour. I cannot recall seeing this back in the day, and wondered from what year the wagons began to be painted as such?

 

Also, some of the SPAs appear to have a black painted panel with a white circle or square(?) painted in the centre. Does anybody know what this was for?

 

And finally, the reason I found this image is because I am searching for images of SPAs fitted with cradles for strip coil traffic. I know that some were fitted with the same steel built cradles used on BAAs, but I am sure I have read somewhere that some had wooden cradles fitted for this traffic? Does anybody have any info/images at all?

 

Many thanks,

 

Marcus

The spa wagons with the black squares on and green painted stanchions on could possibly be in the Bsc Smacc Sheffield to Port Talbot stainless slab pool of which there were 40 allocated to this traffic, the other spa you ask about with wooden cradles were in a pool of 40 wagons for imported coil from Grimsby, kings Lynn etc ... to places like panteg steelworks, finding pictures of the cradles is rare , but there is a pretty good pic in a rail freight book of them at Scunthorpe, will find the book and can PM you the pic ! Myself I'm going to model five of these with wooden cradles having used the FTG spa wagon for traffic on my Great Coates layout, along with some baa with wooden cradles. The video showing spa wagons with cradles look as if they may have only been put in there to be moved ? Not aware of any spa with ex bza cradle fitted but you never know! Also modelling the coil unloading sidings at Shepcote so wondering if spa, boa or vtg Kia wagons ever worked in / out of there ?

I've got the numbers of the spa's for both pools somewhere will try and find

Baz

[Swindon 123]

The only photos I have showing the inside of an SPA are the ones taken on a very wet day at Hereford in 1992. I don't know if they are of the right type but they are shown below.

 

SPA 460759

 

 

 

Finally a shot of SHA 460781, not of the inside but showing the door stanchions which where removable. They where prone to damage and renewed a lot. The paint looks to be Williamson's Green Anti Corrosive Primer which is very good and was used by BR a lot as it lasted well even without a gloss coat, which BR liked. As the Fat controller has previously mentioned, new buffers in this colour where quite common on locos and wagons, especially Oleo buffers.

SHA 460781.

 

Paul J.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Swindon 123

[Fat Controller]

The only photos I have showing the inside of an SPA are the ones taken on a very wet day at Hereford in 1992. I don't know if they are of the right type but they are shown below.

 

SPA 460759

C92B-002.jpg

 

C92B-009.jpg

 

C92B-010.jpg

 

Finally a shot of SHA 460781, not of the inside but showing the door stanchions which where removable. They where prone to damage and renewed a lot. The paint looks to be Williamson's Green Anti Corrosive Primer which is very good and was used by BR a lot as it lasted well even without a gloss coat, which BR liked. As the Fat controller has previously mentioned, new buffers in this colour where quite common on locos and wagons, especially Oleo buffers.

SHA 460781.

C92B-011.jpg

 

Paul J.

Those strips are for wagons conveying wire coil; either as a single row, or two abreast. This traffic originated at AS&W, Cardiff, Sheerness Steel and also a BR plant at Scunthorpe, and went to various destinations, including Mossend, Wolverhampton and Rotherham. OCAs and OBAs could also be seen with this load, as well as modified SPAs, coded SKA. The sheet coil cradles were somewhat 'beefier'

[Tinsley Snail]

Thanks all for the further info.

 

And special thanks to Baz for the PM.

 

This forum is awesome

[bazjones1711]

just found one of my old wagon labels for a SPA wagon that was in the imported coil pool

[Glorious NSE]

Would they have been the same cradles as the SKA conversions? These do look rather more like the ones added to BAA...
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/S-Tops-codes/SKA-Coil-Carrier-ex-SPA/

[porkie]

Wow Tinsley snail. Love that video clip. Some proper freight moves and loco's

[Tinsley Snail]

Would they have been the same cradles as the SKA conversions? These do look rather more like the ones added to BAA...

https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/S-Tops-codes/SKA-Coil-Carrier-ex-SPA/

Hi Glorious NSE,

 

No, the SKA conversions had two cradles running parallel for two rows of rod coil. Also,the wagons had their sides removed.

 

The wagons I was enquiring about had cradles for carrying strip coil, and kept their original TOPS codes.

 

Marcus

[Tinsley Snail]

Wow Tinsley snail. Love that video clip. Some proper freight moves and loco's

Hi Porkie,

 

I know, its ace is'nt it?

 

Not my video though.

 

Marcus

[Fat Controller]

Hi Glorious NSE,

 

No, the SKA conversions had two cradles running parallel for two rows of rod coil. Also,the wagons had their sides removed.

 

The wagons I was enquiring about had cradles for carrying strip coil, and kept their original TOPS codes.

 

Marcus

There were some former SKA that were 'repurposed' after the closure of AS&W, and were given cradles similar to those fitted to the bogie coil wagons. I have seen a photo somewhere, but can't remember where.

[Glorious NSE]

Hi Glorious NSE,

 

No, the SKA conversions had two cradles running parallel for two rows of rod coil. Also,the wagons had their sides removed.

 

The wagons I was enquiring about had cradles for carrying strip coil, and kept their original TOPS codes.

 

Marcus

If you follow the link I posted you'll see what I mean, that I'm sure is a single row.

[Tinsley Snail]

If you follow the link I posted you'll see what I mean, that I'm sure is a single row.

Ah, got you, sorry about that (that'll teach me for being a know it all )

 

I thinks that is one of the wagons Fat Controller is talking about.

 

Not seen one of these before, thanks.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Tinsley Snail

[bazjones1711]

The ska were originally for rod in coil from ASW in Cardiff and from the Scunthorpe rod mill, later had cradles from BZA coil wagons to carry imported coil, there were I think 30+ of These, may have ended up with being coded SCA , worked from Liverpool to panteg , Newport docks to ebbw vale, Immingham to various steel terminals.

The spa wagons referred originally to, were fitted with three wooden cradles similar to the wooden ones on BAA and BBA working out of Grimsby

Baz

Edited June 2, 2016 by bazjones1711

[bazjones1711]

Few pics of wooden cradles made from balsa with plastuct angle for the ends, same principle for BAA / BBA wooden cradled wagons

 

i'm doing one BAA  and five SPA with wooden cradles destined for my yet unstarted Great Coates sidings layout, carrying finished and semi finished imported coil.

Edited July 3, 2016 by bazjones1711

[Wayne 37901]

This thread is quite well timed as I've just started working on some SPAs.

 

Baz, I had no idea that SPAs fitted with wooden cradles worked into South Wales or that they carried stainless slab to Port Talbot. Have you any idea when and any wagon numbers? There were also some BMAs working from PT carrying slab, possibly in the same pool?

 

Cheers, 

[bazjones1711]

This thread is quite well timed as I've just started working on some SPAs.

 

Baz, I had no idea that SPAs fitted with wooden cradles worked into South Wales or that they carried stainless slab to Port Talbot. Have you any idea when and any wagon numbers? There were also some BMAs working from PT carrying slab, possibly in the same pool?

 

Cheers,

hi wayne,

I've got a list of the wagon pools for the imported coil and slab SPA pools , will try and post tomorrow, think there are 40 in each pool , as for BMA prob worked Port Talbot to Llanwern slab.

The SPA wagons carried 15 ton slab from SMACC plant at Tinsley, being rolled at Port Talbot and sent back to Sheffield SPACE on FEW and BDW with wooden cradles, BBA with 6 cradles (got the pool also) and the RLS 92551 - 562 PFA flats with cradles , used to see the PFA in Tidal yard empty waiting to go to Port Talbot for loading sometimes the whole fleet were there!

Anymore info i can find /remember will post Baz

Edited July 17, 2016 by bazjones1711

[br2975]

..............................and the RLS 92551 - 562 PFA flats with cradles , used to see the PFA in Tidal yard empty waiting to go to Port Talbot for loading sometimes the whole fleet were there!

 

Baz / Wayne.

.

Used to see these regularly at Canton Brickyard. They were used on a flow from  Ravenscraig/Mossend  to Tidal carrying coils and they were then tripped to Canton Brickyard from where the coils were distributed  by ISIS Link.

.

The attached photo shows the Brickyard in busier times, with a variety of traffic on show.

.

I have a better view of one of the PFA wagons at the Brickyard.

.

The shunter in this view is 08760. 

.

How about another simple conversion from the SPA, the SHA which had spigots along the centre, and a locker at one end (at least) and was used for carrying coils 'eye to the sky' - I've only ever seen one photo of the inside of such a wagon, taken at Gaer Junction and in an old issue of the now defunct Motive Power Monthly (MPM) by Ian Allan.

.

Brian R