Marketing idea - all manufacturers

[cambo74]

Sat here with a few minutes peace and quiet and had a thought about how manufacturers could increase sales and timescales for model to launch......

 

Simply produce unnumbered models in stock liveries I've BR Blue 37 or 47s then the owner can simply add numbers to depict which ever model they want - Heljan did this a while back with their 47s.

 

Think about it - Bachmann run off 5000 bog standard class 47s in blue with headlight and inset marker lights (the most common of the 47s from say 1985 onwards) - they could give you a sheet of transfers ala Heljan and then the owner can decide what to renumber as and then buy the plates from fox or shawplan etc - so no etched plates need doing by the manufacturer. Then when this lot had sold out - they simply run off another 5000, demand remains constant and supply is quicker as no new moulding need doing etc It's simply just reuse previous moulding and away you go

 

Yes this is simplistic but it's a good business model moving forward.

 

Now I hear you should what about nose end variations and sub classes - these can be done as limited editions so that the waiting is a bit longer than standard releases but kit as long as we wait now as the moulding is available in principle.

 

For models such as the Bachmann class 37 - nose ends are interchangeable so that's not a problem - just produce a standard model and have various nose ends available for buyer to fit - could even be available as a spare ala snowploughs as they are now.

 

I appreciate this is a simplistic view and pure fantasy but if the marketing guys thought a bit more about like this profits would be greater and models released quicker and if they don't have to pay for new tooling so often then they will be able to offer the models slightly cheaper as well.

 

Feel free to shoot down in flames but it certainly makes you

Think.

 

Ben

[Dungrange]

I think that the main problem is that the number of people who want to renumber locomotives to represent a specific locomotive is only a small subset of those who purchase a typical release.  I doubt that there are 5000 modellers in the UK interested in such a blank canvass model.  I understand that previous experiments with unnumbered locomotives have reportedly been slow sellers, so whilst it may sound a good idea to you, I think that the marketing guys know better.  Slow sellers mean tying up capital in stock, which is likely to increase rather than reduce prices.

 

I understand that non-decorated models sell in the US, but firstly the US is a much larger market with more commonality of locomotives across railroad companies and I believe there are more modellers who create their own railroad with fantasy liveries.  Therefore what may work in the US will not necessarily work here.

[darrel]

Hornby tried it in the late 80s with the class 25 it was dropped after a couple of years. Don't know why they dropped it but I can only presume it was not a success.

[grahame]

Dapol tried it with their class 73 some years ago but it wasn't a success. Apparently there are just too many people who want a RTR model and are not prepared or not able to undertake a little personalisation modelling.

 

I guess one issue it that you need to dismantle the model once the numbers have been added to seal them in place with a spray varnish and that means removing the glazing which is often glued in. Tricky for some/many/all or whatever.

 

G.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

All of Bach, Heljan and Hornby have tried versions of this scheme, with different loco products, and the same result. Disappointing sales, and this thought to be because the collector purchasers like it not. A collector cannot display the 'vanilla' model, because to do so means making it 'used' by adding the transfers: the latter of course heresy to the true collector, beige cardigan ripped off, all perfect boxes shredded, etc..

 

... they will be able to offer the models slightly cheaper as well...

And that really ices the cake, purchasers expect a lower price compared to fully finished, yet the production of the separate transfers and ensuring they are packed undamaged with the 'vanilla' model represents a cost increment in the production process. (Those never involved with manufacturing have no idea of the extent to which everything is priced out in detail.)

[Andy Y]

Heljan tried it too with Class 47s; they didn't sell particularly well and ended up at clearance prices. As with the other examples cited it doesn't appear to be what the general market wants. I see so many re-numbers badly executed and that's from people who actively want to do any work for themselves so there's not much hope for the 75% (guesswork!) who just want to empty it from the box onto the track.

[Allegheny1600]

It works well for the 0 scale guys, are there simply too few 00 scale "modellers" left?

After all, how many folk who want a 'banger blue' 47, only want one!?!

IMHO, a painted loco should be sufficient, there are so many variants of number AND logo positions, the manufacturers would be better to leave them off.

Don't bother to provide any but the most basic of transfers in the box, either.

A lot of real modellers would throw them away anyway and put decent decals on instead.

Cheers,

John.

 

PS If you really can't apply a couple of decals/transfers, are you in the right hobby?

[gismorail]

It would work for me personally. One of the worst jobs when re-numbering locomotives is getting the manufactures decal off 

[grahame]

If you really can't apply a couple of decals/transfers, are you in the right hobby?

That may well be the case, and I wouldn't disagree.

 

But the manufacturers are selling their products not just to 'hobby modellers' but also to other toy/model market sectors such as 'model collectors', the 'executive toy' market, the 'kids play toys' segment and to 'modellers' who are simply unable to apply decals and just want to purchase and use RTR.

 

G.

[Phil Bullock]

I feel the train set vs model railway argument coming to the fore here....

 

Ducks and runs for cover....

 

Phil

[Clearwater]

Personally as an idea, I think makes more sense for coaches.

[Allegheny1600]

That may well be the case, and I wouldn't disagree.

 

But the manufacturers are selling their products not just to 'hobby modellers' but also to other toy/model market sectors such as 'model collectors', the 'executive toy' market, the 'kids play toys' segment and to 'modellers' who are simply unable to apply decals and just want to purchase and use RTR.

 

G.

Thanks Grahame,

There's nothing in the OP to say that manufacturers must only do un-numbered, sounds like a good idea to do this in addition to decalled up versions.

I see it as a way to appease those who like their locos a little bit different to the one everyone else has.

Cheers,

John.

[Martin_R]

Personally as an idea, I think makes more sense for coaches.

Definitely not coaches or wagons for me as I can usually pick up a pack of 4 or 8 at a good discount and then it is out with some books/photos, tools, transfers and weathering powders etc and for very little extra cost and effort I end up with my own individualised rolling stock and a smile on my face!

[bmthtrains - David]

I assume the main reason people want to renumber locos is because they have multiples of the same model. Given how few people can actually afford to buy duplicates, I am not surprised manufacturers haven't gone after this idea.

 

I suspect most purchasers think twice before buying the same class of locomotive in a different livery to one they already have, let alone the same livery, even more so the same number with the aim of altering it!

 

This idea seems to be one of those well-intended 'inside the bubble' thoughts that often emerge on forums, the participants forgetting that they represent a tiny minority of the total market and extend their own dedication, accuracy and financial devotion to everyone else, when the reality is that a huge chunk of the model railway market either put their models on a shelf, or run them on painted sheets of chipboard with 30 year old Hornby platforms and paper mache tunnels as scenery, have no qualms about running an A4 pulling a train of auto ballasters, and enjoy their hobby just as much as someone who spends six weeks repainting their third scotrail class 47.

 

These buyers probably do less modelling in the traditional sense, but make up a significant chunk of the RTR manufacturers income, so the market will always lean toward their demands.

 

David

[Wheatley]

 

There's nothing in the OP to say that manufacturers must only do un-numbered, sounds like a good idea to do this in addition to decalled up versions.

 

So two separate production runs (more cost) one of which won't sell. I remember Heljan's attempt with the 47s, all the major retailers ended up knocking them out at what must have been very close to trade price.  

 

People capable of / willing to stick numbers on straight are not the majority of the market. They aren't even a large minority.

[Les1952]

I'm a steam era modeller, and have mostly renumbered locos in my fleet.

 

However, I'm not sure unnumbered locos would work, at least for me.  To give an example- LNER pacifics.

 

A1s- do you want tin or cast double chimneys, then Darlington built with flush rivets or Doncaster with snap heads.

 

A3s (BR)- blinkers or not? single or double chimney?  if the latter   former right or left-hand drive? Diagran 94HP boiler with round dome, 94A boiler with banjo dome or diagram 107 boiler with banjo and bolier bands in a different place and different washout plugs?  Which of three different tenders?

 

Even the fifteen Peppercorn A2s had FIVE variations (single chimney plus five with double chimneys and outside regulator rodding plus Bronzino with a double chimney and no outside rodding - the latter six carrying fabricated chimneys at first then cast ones)

 

Unnumbered locos are too complicated.  If I want to change an identity I look for the nearest version and renumber (and rename) it.  This might also involve replacing parts but so be it.  I can afford to make my one-off 60539 BRONZINO. A manufacturer can't make an unnumbered A2 just in case a few like me also want one.

 

Just a thought.

Les

[Free At Last]

Dapol do a range of unpainted RTR wagons.

[grahame]

There's nothing in the OP to say that manufacturers must only do un-numbered, sounds like a good idea to do this in addition to decalled up versions.

 

.

No, and no-one has suggested that, but as already mentioned by a number of people, unfortunately when the manufacturers tried it - to have some undecalled versions produced as well as fully numbered and painted batches - they simply didn't sell well. I'm not so sure that they'd bother again.

 

G.

[rob D2]

No, and no-one has suggested that, but as already mentioned by a number of people, unfortunately when the manufacturers tried it - to have some undecalled versions produced as well as fully numbered and painted batches - they simply didn't sell well. I'm not so sure that they'd bother again.

 

 

I agree. It's not a new idea. I recall Bachmann were asked in an interview about it and said they would never do it.

 

I do a lot of renumber ing and it's not hard if you take your time.

 

I think the reason O gauge aren't numbered, is because it IS a small market, and people are likely only to afford one of each type this they are more picky about the actual number

[Kenton]

 

I doubt that there are 5000 modellers in the UK interested in such a blank canvass model.

 

THAT many?

 

It is not so much the difficulty as the why bother factor. Sure, if you are an A1 or a class 37 fanatic you will focus on the most significant difference - the number. But I suspect most are happy with just one representative example. On an exhibition layout I find it slightly annoying when the exhibitor has made a point of changing the loco number but then leaves all the other rolling stock unaltered.

 

I don't buy much RTR but a blank canvas is definitely no interest for me.

[Wheatley]

I agree. It's not a new idea. I recall Bachmann were asked in an interview about it and said they would never do it.

 

 

I think the fact that Bachmann do offer undecorated locos in the US shows that they have actually taken the trouble to research their market and decided that the US and UK markets are very different. It's not been rejected out of hand on a whim or because "we've always done it like this".

[58050]

It would work for me personally. One of the worst jobs when re-numbering locomotives is getting the manufactures decal off 

 

Doubly so on weathered stock, the bane of my existence!

[dibber25]

I assume it works OK for Rapido. They do fully finished and un-numbered versions of their locos. The un-numbered ones have a full sheet of decals for all appropriate numbers, so you don't have to align separate digits. I tend to buy the un-numbered ones so I can number them as locos I've seen or ridden behind. I was told that Hornby didn't like doing un-numbered models because producing the separate decal sheet meant there was no cost-saving and they didn't like seeing their models with poorly applied decals. (CJL)

[TheSignalEngineer]

I'm a steam era modeller, and have mostly renumbered locos in my fleet.

 

However, I'm not sure unnumbered locos would work, at least for me.  To give an example- LNER pacifics.

 

A1s- do you want tin or cast double chimneys, then Darlington built with flush rivets or Doncaster with snap heads.

 

A3s (BR)- blinkers or not? single or double chimney?  if the latter   former right or left-hand drive? Diagran 94HP boiler with round dome, 94A boiler with banjo dome or diagram 107 boiler with banjo and bolier bands in a different place and different washout plugs?  Which of three different tenders?

 

Even the fifteen Peppercorn A2s had FIVE variations (single chimney plus five with double chimneys and outside regulator rodding plus Bronzino with a double chimney and no outside rodding - the latter six carrying fabricated chimneys at first then cast ones)

 

Unnumbered locos are too complicated.  If I want to change an identity I look for the nearest version and renumber (and rename) it.  This might also involve replacing parts but so be it.  I can afford to make my one-off 60539 BRONZINO. A manufacturer can't make an unnumbered A2 just in case a few like me also want one.

 

Just a thought.

Les

Similarly Class 47s. 512 were built, and with modifications and rebuilds, crash repairs, reliveries, renumbers, naming and un-naming I bet there were nearer 5120 variations during the life of the class as the main line workhorse.

[Pete the Elaner]

After all, how many folk who want a 'banger blue' 47, only want one!?!

That is another problem. 'Ah, there goes a banger blue 47' ... '& another 3 trains later'. Only the most eccentric observer would notice it is actually the same one.

Not quite the same as 'oh look, Doncaster Enterprise in apple green livery' . If that appeared again after 2 minutes, it would not be 'just another 47'.

 

So by producing a plain blue unnumbered 47, manufacturers would not sell as many as by doing named celebrities. Several of the manufacturers have tried but found them to be poor sellers.

 

It is worth noting that Hornby have had a Mallard, Flying Scotsman & Evening Star in their range more than any other steam locos. Look for a particular black 9F or maybe A4 'Kingfisher' & you will be unlikely to find it. I can't even name any of Scotsman's classmates. They don't do others so often because these are the ones who occasional modellers know.

 

Any who would not be interested in unnamed locos would probably not post on this thread either. I would welcome unnumbered locos so I could choose what I wanted based on where I model. I accept that I am in a minority & will continue to have to re-number locos if I want a specific example.