Mk2 BG Full Brake

[Scalescenes]

Like a lot of modellers I have a bit of a thing for parcels rolling stock and with the drop in price of the Bachmann Mk2 (You can pick one up from Hattons for only £12) it has me seriously thinking about putting a couple of BSOs under the knife. I have been entertaining this idea for a couple of years now, could be a bit of fun without looking too 'out there'. I've roughly mocked these up in Photoshop.

 

I'm curious if anyone knows if these were seriously considered...

[298]

I suppose the nearest thing are the Irish Mk2 Generator vans:

 

http://irishrailwaylocomotivesandrollingstock.fotopic.net/p12178262.html

 

Couldn't you use the Hornby Mk2 brake instead...? You could get several for GBP 12....

['CHARD]

I must confess that during those misspent (after)hours at Derby Carriage and the Tech Centre when the devil made work for idle hands etc... I never came across anything that hinted at even a prototype let alone a production run of these. I think, like Catering vehicles in the MkI range, there were sufficient brakes to populate rakes of stock until the advent of MkIIIs and beyond. The plain blue one does look very compelling as a what-if though!!!

[Talltim]

I like the all blue one too

A Mk3 one would be interesting too . I suspect it would have been shorter than a standard Mk3 in a similar manner to the shorter M3 based EMUs

[eastwestdivide]

A Mk3 one would be interesting too .

More or less a DVT without the cab?

['CHARD]

Or the unpowered Class 325 intermediate vehicle indeed!

 

 

[Edwin_m]

When the Mk3 formations on the WCML were allowed to do 110mph, for some reason it was OK for the remaining Mk1s (BGs and buffets at this time) to be upgraded but it was said at the time that Mk2 stock could not run at more than 100mph. Not sure why this should be, but perhaps a reason to be happy that the Mk1s were not replaced before this date?

[298]

When the Mk3 formations on the WCML were allowed to do 110mph, for some reason it was OK for the remaining Mk1s (BGs and buffets at this time) to be upgraded but it was said at the time that Mk2 stock could not run at more than 100mph. Not sure why this should be, but perhaps a reason to be happy that the Mk1s were not replaced before this date?

 

I believe it was due to the brake force within a set, the theory being a 110mph set wouldn't have more than two Mk1's within it and the disc brakes on the Mk3 making up for the clasp brakes on the coaches, whereas a Mk2 set would only have clasp brakes throughout.

 

Anyway, speed limits on the WCML were always a bit of an advisory....

[Bloodnok]

A Mk3 one would be interesting too . I suspect it would have been shorter than a standard Mk3 in a similar manner to the shorter M3 based EMUs

 

Depends when you postulate it being built. IIRC there was a rumour spreading at one point that redundant Mk3 sleepers were going to be converted into 125mph parcels vehicles (to run with Cl67s). Obviously as conversions, these wouldn't be shorter...

[DavidB-AU]

IIRC there was a rumour spreading at one point that redundant Mk3 sleepers were going to be converted into 125mph parcels vehicles (to run with Cl67s).

Was it parcels or mail? I'm working from a very dim memory here but I recall reading about the idea that hauling bulk mail at 125mph and sorting at the destination would be cheaper and more efficient than building new TPOs and sorting en route at 90mph.

 

I do like the idea of a Mk 2 full brake, although it might need more than two sets of luggage doors per side. It might also be interesting to see what late 60s DVT would look like with a class 310 nose on one end.

 

Cheers

David

[Edwin_m]

It might also be interesting to see what late 60s DVT would look like with a class 310 nose on one end.

 

...or they might have used either the gangwayed or the non-gangwayed end from those Northern Ireland DEMUs.

[Bloodnok]

Was it parcels or mail? I'm working from a very dim memory here but I recall reading about the idea that hauling bulk mail at 125mph and sorting at the destination would be cheaper and more efficient than building new TPOs and sorting en route at 90mph.

 

I'm sure it was parcels - though now I think of it, it's a lot more likely to have been mail, as it was at about the time the TPOs were up for replacement...

[Scalescenes]

Thanks everyone for your comments. As with the MK1 BG should it be shorter than a standard Mk2? (As a side issue, does anyone know why exactly the Mk1 BGs were shorter? Was it just down to pre-BR design lineage?)

 

I'm leaning towards the all blue version with either 'Newspapers' as shown or maybe 'Rail Express Parcels' branding. Any suggestions on the TOPS code/numbering I should apply? NLX?

 

Any ideas for the left over bits? A Mk2 Exhibition coach or TCV Car carrying van perhaps... or maybe I'm about to have 'modellers licence' stamped void.

 

 

Many thanks

 

John

[Edwin_m]

The length issue is probably something to do with the van having to take a greater load per unit area of floorspace. If the length had been unchanged then the supporting structure would have had to be thicker and heavier, which was probably a much bigger design change than just making the same structure a bit shorter. A greater load and a heavier structure over a similar length would also have increased the axle load quite a bit, perhaps making it impossible to use standard bogies.

 

The same issues would potentially have applied to the Mk2, and indeed this may be one reason why Mk3 DVTs are shorter than the passenger coaches.

[eastwestdivide]

Any ideas for the left over bits?

Mk2 buffet, kitchen or restaurant?

[kintbury jon]

Thanks everyone for your comments. As with the MK1 BG should it be shorter than a standard Mk2? (As a side issue, does anyone know why exactly the Mk1 BGs were shorter? Was it just down to pre-BR design lineage?)

 

I'm leaning towards the all blue version with either 'Newspapers' as shown or maybe 'Rail Express Parcels' branding. Any suggestions on the TOPS code/numbering I should apply? NLX?

 

Any ideas for the left over bits? A Mk2 Exhibition coach or TCV Car carrying van perhaps... or maybe I'm about to have 'modellers licence' stamped void.

 

 

Many thanks

 

John

 

 

Based on the picture you have produced, I would shorten the frame for aesthetic purposes. The large section in the middle with no doors or windows just doesn't look right. Alternatively you could insert an extra window in the middle section.

 

With regard to the potential of a DVT you could go for either cab end of the Irish DEMU.

[lankyphil]

As a side issue, does anyone know why exactly the Mk1 BGs were shorter? Was it just down to pre-BR design lineage?

 

Route availability.

 

64ft, or normal sized, Mk1 stock had a route restriction which kept them away from certain tightly curved lines (for some reason I'm thinking the Cumbrian Coast line????).

 

The BGs were built 57 feet long so that they could go anywhere... I guess the reasoning being that as a parcels van, they would be more likely to traverse goods lines etc, and it's easy to transfer people to another train, not so easy to transfer a BG full of parcels/mail/newspapers etc etc etc?

 

Phil

[giz]

Thanks everyone for your comments. As with the MK1 BG should it be shorter than a standard Mk2? (As a side issue, does anyone know why exactly the Mk1 BGs were shorter? Was it just down to pre-BR design lineage?)

 

 

The Mk1 BG was on the shorter underframe as this gave increased route availablity. Some routes were barred to 64ft Mk1s.

 

Also, ISTR that there were some similar restrictions due to the longer length of some pre-nationalisation designs of BG (e.g. LNER).

[Scalescenes]

Thanks again for all the info. I have created a shortened version which I think looks much better.

[kintbury jon]

That does look better with the extra window in the middle.

[Allegheny1600]

Thanks again for all the info. I have created a shortened version which I think looks much better.

 

 

Hi John,

Many thanks for these ideas, i really like the idea of doing something a bit different - i bet such a model would have the rivet counters furiously checking their coaching stock pocket books!

Mind if i "borrow" your idea, please? I rather fancy one of these myself!

Cheers,

John E.

[jamie92208]

Just as an aside the route restriction on the Cumbrian coast was due to restricted clearances on the Maryport and Carlisle section at the northern end. The bridges were very narrow and the 1st generation dmu's used to ahve bars over the windows.

 

Jamie

[Dave777]

Build it!

[Scalescenes]

I will order the sacrificial Mk2s from Hattons in the next couple of weeks or so (just bought a rake of Mk3s and a new Hornby HST, so I need to let my wallet recover a bit ) Besides I think I need a couple of weeks to psych myself into sawing up two really good coaches. I have to confess that this will be my first major attack on rolling stock with a razor saw and there is plenty of potential for things to go horribly wrong, especially as it could give my wife the impression that I have some sort of disorder that compels me to ritually destroy new purchases.

 

Borrow away John E. I'd be very pleased to see another version.

 

I'll post some progress shots on this thread as they come to hand...

[Talltim]

It might also be interesting to see what late 60s DVT would look like with a class 310 nose on one end.

 

Cheers

David

Or perhaps with a class 33 nose?

 

 

The length issue is probably something to do with the van having to take a greater load per unit area of floorspace. If the length had been unchanged then the supporting structure would have had to be thicker and heavier, which was probably a much bigger design change than just making the same structure a bit shorter. A greater load and a heavier structure over a similar length would also have increased the axle load quite a bit, perhaps making it impossible to use standard bogies.

 

The same issues would potentially have applied to the Mk2, and indeed this may be one reason why Mk3 DVTs are shorter than the passenger coaches.

 

I suspect this and the clearance issues also mentioned were the case. The short underfame was also already available from the suburban Mk1s