Grangemouth Depot track plan

[Paul W]

Hi to all that have perused this topic.

 

I have been researching for a possible build of Grangemouth Depot during the period 1976- 1980 and have devised a track plan from studying all available online photo's from the usual sources. The track plan so far is below using Peco code 75 Anyrail software. I know the geometry is going to be slightly off and may need a bit of tweaking of the length of the points to get it to look right but we are at a very early stage at the moment. I may even go down the road of hand built points but as yet undecided.

 

 

 

 

Obviously the 6 road running shed is well represented photograph wise, although I would like to know if all 6 roads had inspection pits. Also the maintenance shed is well photographed too, but did this have an inspection pit too?

 

I am assuming by the photographs studied that all 7 roads would just about hold a pair of class 37's if the inner most 37 was as far in as possible, otherwise the outermost loco would have it's snout out into the outside, as per many a photo of loco's in Grangemouth shed. Having measured a Bachmann 37 to be 10 inches from buffer to buffer lengthways then I would assume that an overall length of 20 inches would be about right for the depot in 4mm/ft.

 

The biggest gap in info is what lays behind the many photographers who are aiming their camera at the sheds. I know that there are 7 roads that go into the sheds and that there is an 8th road that runs along outside the depot, which is represented by the single length of rail on the plan, but I have been unable as yet to find a photo showing where this leads from.

 

Having appealed for info before concerning Sunderland South Dock Depot I was pleasantly surprised at the response so I am hopeful that this appeal also has a favourable response.

 

As the research is in it's infancy I am sure there will be more questions to follow.

 

I thank you in anticipation of your responses.

 

Paul

[Scottish Modeller]

HI Paul,

 

There is a full trackplan in one of the Scottish Region Shed books.

 

I have it somewhere but will have to find out where!

 

Thanks

[Paul W]

Hi Scot Mod

 

Thanks for that. If you can let me know which book then maybe I can make a purchase from ebay.

 

Paul

[Scottish Modeller]

HI Paul,

 

I was searching whilst you were reading/typing....

 

OK - Here we go....

 

British Steam Motive Power Depots - LMR
by Paul Bolger. Published by Ian Allan 1981
ISBN 0 7110 1019 6

 

British Steam Motive Power Depots - ER
by Paul Bolger. Published by Ian Allan 1982
ISBN 0 7110 1193 1

 

British Steam Motive Power Depots - SR
by Paul Bolger. Published by Ian Allan 1983
ISBN 0 7110 1274 1

 

British Steam Motive Power Depots - WR
by Paul Bolger. Published by Ian Allan 1983
ISBN 0 7110 1311 X

 

British Steam Motive Power Depots - ScR
by Paul Bolger. Published by Ian Allan 1983
ISBN 0 7110 1248 2

 

British Steam Motive Power Depots - NER
by Paul Bolger. Published by Ian Allan 1984
ISBN 0 7110 1362 4

 

Obviously it's the ScR one that you want.

 

These are sometimes remaindered at Bargain Books and other similarly named outlets.

 

Thanks

[gazman424]

Hi Paul,

 All six roads in the running shed had inspection pits, with the two roads on the right being mainly used for wagon repairs. The Maintenance shed had the track raised on concrete pillars, with the floor sloping down from the entrance.

The mini run-round loop on the approach to maintenance shed was known as the 'Abadan', although I've no idea why,

and neither did any of the staff I spoke to.

 There is good track plan and scale drawings of the shed in this book;

LMS ENGINE SHEDS Volume 5 THE CALEDONIAN RAILWAY

ISBN-10 0906867568

 

I'll dig out some old pics when I get a chance

 

Gaz.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Gaz

 

Old Maps has the track plan as it was in 1961, from there you should be able to work out what needs to be added and taken away.

 

Edit, it will display "you need to subscribe to view at this level", click on the - sign and it will scale down so you can view it.

[Paul W]

Thanks for the list Scot Mod I will see where this leads me. Quite a few options there so I am hopeful.

 

Gaz, thanks for that info, very interesting especially the Abadan bit.

 

Clive, many thanks for the link, just what I am after. Haven't come across that site before, one to subscribe to me thinks.

 

Once again thanks guys for tour help.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[gazman424]

Thanks for the list Scot Mod I will see where this leads me. Quite a few options there so I am hopeful.

 

Gaz, thanks for that info, very interesting especially the Abadan bit.

 

Clive, many thanks for the link, just what I am after. Haven't come across that site before, one to subscribe to me thinks.

 

Once again thanks guys for tour help.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Hi Paul,

 Just a quick one to be going on with. The sidings to the right were used by Marcroft I think, for the repair and maintenance of the oil tanker fleet. Locos to the fore include 08620 and 37188. This would be the mid to late 80's.

 

Off out to enjoy the sun for a bit now...

Gaz.

[gazman424]

Hi Paul,

 Just a quick one to be going on with. The sidings to the right were used by Marcroft I think, for the repair and maintenance of the oil tanker fleet. Locos to the fore include 08620 and 37188. This would be the mid to late 80's.

Grangemouth Shed.jpg

 

Off out to enjoy the sun for a bit now...

Gaz.

Whoops! The sidings referred to are, of course, on the Left!!

Gaz.

[jonny777]

Hi Paul,

 All six roads in the running shed had inspection pits, with the two roads on the right being mainly used for wagon repairs. The Maintenance shed had the track raised on concrete pillars, with the floor sloping down from the entrance.

The mini run-round loop on the approach to maintenance shed was known as the 'Abadan', although I've no idea why,

and neither did any of the staff I spoke to.

Gaz.

 

 

From distant memory of secondary school projects, Abadan was a very large BP owned oil refinery in Iran (mostly during the time it was called Persia).

 

I believe Grangemouth was/is also a BP facility.

 

I wonder if much of Grangemouth's imports came from Abadan in the past?

[Bon Accord]

Hi to all that have perused this topic.

 

I have been researching for a possible build of Grangemouth Depot during the period 1976- 1980 and have devised a track plan from studying all available online photo's from the usual sources. The track plan so far is below using Peco code 75 Anyrail software. I know the geometry is going to be slightly off and may need a bit of tweaking of the length of the points to get it to look right but we are at a very early stage at the moment. I may even go down the road of hand built points but as yet undecided.

 

 

Grangemouth proposed.jpg

 

 

Obviously the 6 road running shed is well represented photograph wise, although I would like to know if all 6 roads had inspection pits. Also the maintenance shed is well photographed too, but did this have an inspection pit too?

 

I am assuming by the photographs studied that all 7 roads would just about hold a pair of class 37's if the inner most 37 was as far in as possible, otherwise the outermost loco would have it's snout out into the outside, as per many a photo of loco's in Grangemouth shed. Having measured a Bachmann 37 to be 10 inches from buffer to buffer lengthways then I would assume that an overall length of 20 inches would be about right for the depot in 4mm/ft.

 

The biggest gap in info is what lays behind the many photographers who are aiming their camera at the sheds. I know that there are 7 roads that go into the sheds and that there is an 8th road that runs along outside the depot, which is represented by the single length of rail on the plan, but I have been unable as yet to find a photo showing where this leads from.

 

Having appealed for info before concerning Sunderland South Dock Depot I was pleasantly surprised at the response so I am hopeful that this appeal also has a favourable response.

 

As the research is in it's infancy I am sure there will be more questions to follow.

 

I thank you in anticipation of your responses.

 

Paul

 

Paul,

I have a series of Caledonian Railway builders plans of the shed in my possession, of which I enclose a couple of photographs which I hope will answer your questions. They do have a huge amount of dimensions on them with regard to shed/road lengths and also show the inspection pits.

[Bon Accord]

From distant memory of secondary school projects, Abadan was a very large BP owned oil refinery in Iran (mostly during the time it was called Persia).

 

I believe Grangemouth was/is also a BP facility.

 

I wonder if much of Grangemouth's imports came from Abadan in the past?

 

They did indeed, Iranian crude oil was brought all the way from the PG in company tankers and discharged at Grangemouth and Llandarcy (Swansea).

BP was originally the Anglo Persian Oil Company and their Abadan refinery complex was enormous.

[Paul W]

Hi Gaz

 

Do you have a pair of slippers with left and right on them, if so you have them on the wrong feet  

 

I have seen many photo's of various types of wagons on the far right road, lets call that no. 6 road, as well as the second right road, no. 5 road  and also the first left road, no. 1 road at differing periods, which will certainly add to the operational interest of a layout based on Grangemouth. Nice photo too, a typically drab grey day with those yard lamps shinning brightly.

 

 

Hi Jonny

 

I did a quick search about Abadan myself and came to a similar conclusion about the Iran link. It would seem this would be a good explanation.

 

 

Hi Jim

 

Those plans are just what I am after.

 

Is there any chance that I can pay to have them copied and sent to me please, as they will remove any guess work that I may have been expecting to have to use. I can assure you they will be used for my own use only. If so please contact me by PM and we can have a chat about it.

 

Once again thank you guys for your invaluable input. Don't you just love RMweb

 

Paul

[gazman424]

Hi Paul,

 A couple more pics that I hope you find relevant - not the best quality as my camera was pretty crap back then!

 

 

The next shot is included to show No.1 road (If I'm following your convention correctly!), and how it was shortened to accommodate the building at the back left corner. I believe this was a compressor building.

 

 

A nice collection of locos were usually found stabled...

 

 

And finally, one of the fueling point;

 

 

I'll post a few more over the next few days if you're not bored to death yet!!

Gaz.

 

 

 

 

[Paul W]

Gaz.....keep them coming if you don't mind spending the time posting. I will not ever  get bored with seeing these.

 

That first photo is priceless, it really shows how the Maintenance shed is laid out, haven't seen that until now.

 

Also that shot of the shortened no.1 road is also excellent as I didn't realise it was shorter than the other 5. Any idea of the date of that particular photo.

 

And a good detailed shot of the fuel point....superb.

 

I am really starting to  "feel" this depot now.

 

Thanks again.

 

Paul

[Matt]

From distant memory of secondary school projects, Abadan was a very large BP owned oil refinery in Iran (mostly during the time it was called Persia).

 

I believe Grangemouth was/is also a BP facility.

 

I wonder if much of Grangemouth's imports came from Abadan in the past?

The site at Grangemouth was divided into three main parts: refinery, chemical works and "upstream" operated by different divisions of BP - BP oil, BP chemicals and BP exploration respectively. To an extent they ran like separate companies with lunch in the BP oil canteen costing 10p for as much as you could eat but the chemicals canteen costing 50p for same type of offer and employees from one site barred from the others canteen. Swipe cards governed who could go where but some of oils records were housed in a building within the chemicals plant confines which made life fun... Anyway, BP sold the chemical works and refinery a few years back to what has now become Ineos - however the upstream site which stabilises crude from North Sea platforms is operated by BP to this day. I worked there as an intern in 1997 - fascinating place and some great people.

[Paul W]

Hi Matt

 

Thank you for the info.

 

10p for all you can eat sounds like a bargain even back then.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

We blagged our way into the TMD a couple of times to photograph and measure wagons, Some of the photos are in amongst these http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=grangemouth including the nice large Speedfreight CA that was in use as a store. The actual building was like going back in time and it is certainly worthy of modelling.

 

Paul

[Paul W]

Hi Paul

 

Thanks for the link.

 

I have just had a preliminary look at some of the pictures on your site at Grangemouth which are superb.

 

I can now be very specific which wagons I choose to put through the depot.

 

Many thanks.

 

Paul

[Matt]

Hi Matt

 

Thank you for the info.

 

10p for all you can eat sounds like a bargain even back then.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Believe it had something to with if they provided it for free then it would be counted as a taxable perk. no one policed the payment - there was a basket at end of counter where you threw your 10p into. ahh pie, beans and chips five days a week - not sure did me much good tho. M

[gazman424]

Morning All,

 A couple of pics, and again apologies for the quality! I have lots more, but i'll need to find them and get them scanned in.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh for a better camera back in the day...

Gaz.

 

 

 

[gazman424]

And a couple more...

 

 

 

 

Gaz.

 

 

[Paul W]

^Gaz

 

^{Thanks for posting the photo's and for the email with the plans attached. These will be very helpful.}

 

^Matt

 

^{In those days I guess pie, beans and chips counted as "healthy" compared to a lot of what was eaten.}

 

^{Thank you for all the input gentlemen. I can now go and play with Templot and see just how close to prototype space will allow me to get. The engine shed and it's attached buildings can be faithfully built as I have space for those so hopefully something very closely resembling Grangemouth as the prototype will be the result.}

 

^{You never know, I may even start a thread from scratch with the build......but then again I have said this before and didn't.}

 

^Paul

[Fairdoos]

Don't know if this will be of interest to you but there is a 00 gauge layout of Grangemouth. This I believe is foreshortened slightly to achieve the distance from the station to the shed, working in at 30ft. The model was build by Falkirk Model Railway Club and will be at Perth Show this June.

It has appeared in the Hornby magazine April 2013 and the BRM Annual for 2015.

 

Roger.

[Paul W]

Hi Roger

 

No, I wasn't aware of a layout already depicting Grangemouth, I shall do another search.

 

Doesn't matter anyway as I intend this to be for my own consumption anyway.

 

Paul