Wiring DCC layout - Help

[rushdenx1]

With the help of RMweb, I have now decided to build my new DCC OO gauge layout with Peco code 75 track and electrofrog points.

The picture below shows my proposed track plan. The Layout will be about 8 feet long by just 1 foot. Due to the size constraints, there

is a lot of point work with one of the tracks having 4 consecutive points joined together. Hope this will work ok ?

Can someone please give me some advice as to how to wire up this layout. Where the power feeds should be positioned and where the insulated

joiners need to go. Thanks Kevin.

 

Layout.pdf

[Pete the Elaner]

Hi & welcome.

 

The number of points you have shold not be a problem.

 

I have a code 75 point wired up & ready to install, so I took a pic of it.

 

The 2 centre rails to the left off the pic are the ones to connect with insulated rail joiners, then re-feed the rails from the other side of the joint.

 

Just left of centre, you will see a gap in the sleeper webbing & 2 exposed rails which are isolated from each other. Out of the box, these will have a small wire connecting them. Remove it.

 

Feed the other rails as I have done, to the right of center in the pic, connecting the outside rails to the inner switched ones.

 

The above 2 steps ensure that you will have good electrical continuity as contact between switched rails & outside rails can be unreliable. It will also ensure that the outside & switched rails are never opposite polarity. This can be a problem with coarser wheeled stock which can short these out.

 

The last bit is the frog, which is fed by the wire already connected to the point. This needs to be switched, but it is important that the switch is thrown with the point, otherwise you will have a short again. Most of us use point motors with the switch connected, either internally or externally.

 

Lastly, add as many power feeds to straight sections as you can. Copper is a better conductor than Nickel Silver, & solder is a better conductor than a paint-covered rail joiner.

 

It is recommended to run a nice, thick copper cable the length off the layout & take all your track feeds from this.

 

Good luck.

[StaffsOatcake]

You could always use 3 way points as these will allow slightly longer trains.

 

I personally haven't wired my points the way suggested, but I have wired all the frogs to point motors ensuring they are powered by the correct polarity when the switch changes.

 

I personally use SEEP PM1's which I pre wire and then use hot glue to attach them to the board. This gives a certain amount of time into which you can move the motor slightly.

 

A simple flick with a small scraper removed them from the board.

 

hopefully these will give you an idea of how i have done it. The second image is the underside of Peco single slip which is pre-wired

[96701]

Wiring for DCC is simple. Connect every piece of rail to a supply, fit insulated rail joiners to both vee rails and you are off.

 

The business regarding modifying points and switching frogs make them far more reliable.

[Kenton]

The rules for wiring layouts never change.

 

They are simple to understand and apply to DC and DCC.

 

You can always take short cuts (more with DC than DCC)

 

1. A dropper from every stock rail (or toe of point - its the same thing)

2. Every frog has an insulated joiner.

3. the frog polarity is switched by whatever point drive system you use (Tortoise are the best but other, less reliable, alternatives might do)

4. Points are best modified to bond switch rails to stock rails and to isolate them from the frog - best practice but not absolutely needed.

5. A dropper from every length of track - but especially from those isolated by (2)

6. With DCC you don't need to worry about sections or cabs.

[StaffsOatcake]

I agree that the Tortoise may be better motors but you get 3 PM1's for the price of one tortoise.

 

If they were the same price I would have fitted them but they are not, and with a family, two cats, other hobbies and the occasional trip to the pub I don't have millions of pounds to throw at tortoises.

[Donw]

I prefer to hand build points and use the money saved to buy Tortoise motors - they are self adjusting once roughly set and don't lose adjustment with temperature changes.

Donw

[StaffsOatcake]

I prefer to hand build points and use the money saved to buy Tortoise motors - they are self adjusting once roughly set and don't lose adjustment with temperature changes.

Donw

 

I'm not that skilled at building points and given my handiness (or lack of it) with a soldering iron I'll leave point building to the experts

[Kenton]

I don't have millions of pounds to throw at tortoises.

Tortoise may be slightly more expensive (now the exchange rate has plummeted from the 2:1 and certainly compared to manual point switching they do look really expensive. But cheaper is often a false economy.

 

I cannot understand folk who will spend 100s GBP on yet another loco for the layout or on fancy DCC controllers and chips yet begrudge the extra few GBP on probably the most important part of their layout (point operation and frog switching)

 

Just make yourself a promise - when the motors you are using fail or cause you frog switching grief - replace them as they fail with a Tortoise (or at least something better)

[Ron Ron Ron]

I agree that the Tortoise may be better motors but you get 3 PM1's for the price of one tortoise......

...If they were the same price I would have fitted them but they are not..

It's true that they cost more, but it's not comparing like with like.

As you say, they're a better product, so I'd expect them to cost a bit more and for a few ££'s extra per point it's well worth the money IMHO.

 

 

...I don't have millions of pounds to throw at tortoises.

Tortoise may be slightly more expensive.... ....But cheaper is often a false economy.

 

I cannot understand folk who will spend 100s GBP on yet another loco for the layout or on fancy DCC controllers and chips yet begrudge the extra few GBP on probably the most important part of their layout (point operation and frog switching)

 

Just make yourself a promise - when the motors you are using fail or cause you frog switching grief - replace them as they fail with a Tortoise (or at least something better)

I totally agree with Kenton on this. Even on a tight budget, spending a few extra pounds per point to get decent reliable (and proper) motors and frog switching is worth it, especially if you want to have more realistic and reliable operation.

The Seep switch machines are very cheap and I can see the attraction of saving a few quid, but is it worth it?

[p.s. There's no case at all for Peco solenoids IMHO. When fitted with a twin switch they cost almost as much as the Tortoises.]

 

 

.

[Kenton]

Of course if you want really cheap and can get your head round the build, you could go down the DIY servo route.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=49041

I must get back to trying to make them work

[hoovered]

I was going to use Peco point motors on my layout, but having read your coments I think I'll go with the Tortoise.

 

So , where's the best place to buy the Tortoise ?.

[Pete the Elaner]

The drawback with tortoise motors is that they are deep, very deep. They require 3.5 inches of clearance for underframe mounting.

[Kenton]

The drawback with tortoise motors is that they are deep, very deep. They require 3.5 inches of clearance for underframe mounting.

But they can be mounted on their side - albeit not as easy to install.

[StaffsOatcake]

I was going to use Peco point motors on my layout, but having read your coments I think I'll go with the Tortoise.

 

So , where's the best place to buy the Tortoise ?.

 

 

EEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

 

I maybe tight but at least I'm a bit wise. by the time you add up the all the bits to make the frog switch anf the plastic bases you may as well go for Tortoises. When and if the SEEP require replacement then I will look at Tortoise but I want to be able to enjoy my layout now and not have to lean over stuff to manually switch points until I can afford tortoise.

 

Mind having worked with real point motors (from various manufacturers as well as mechanical points)they may seem slow to move but in scale speed the tortoise actually takes about 60 seconds to travel nearly 5 inches how is that prototypical?

 

Sorry but the route is changed,locked and cleared in a fraction of that time. So they are not so scale speed after all

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....Mind having worked with real point motors (from various manufacturers as well as mechanical points)they may seem slow to move but in scale speed the tortoise actually takes about 60 seconds to travel nearly 5 inches how is that prototypical?

 

Sorry but the route is changed,locked and cleared in a fraction of that time. So they are not so scale speed after all

True, but IMHO the slow action is a lot better than the snap action and toy train set "THWAK !"

 

There are other slo-mo point motors that are a little bit faster than the Tortoise, but most cannot beat it for quiet operation. I suppose going down the servo route would provide an opportunity to fine tune the speed of operation, if that was particularly important.

 

Another advantage of slo-mo point motors over solenoid switch-machines, is that they're much gentler on the points themselves. I would have thought that quite important with handmade or the more delicate RTL (ready-to-lay) products. On the other hand, Peco points are fairly durable (at the expense of their appearance) and seem to cope with solenoid punishment, but I'm sure it must take its toll in due course.

 

 

.

[StaffsOatcake]

I'm not against the tortsoise, far from from it, I'd love to install them but like I say I'm on a budget and I'd rather have that shiny new loco, than have to wait and it go out of stock or worse production than worry about how realistic the points move across.

 

Tortoise rules but not at present for me. Maybe one day

[Brian]

With the help of RMweb, I have now decided to build my new DCC OO gauge layout with Peco code 75 track and electrofrog points.

The picture below shows my proposed track plan. The Layout will be about 8 feet long by just 1 foot. Due to the size constraints, there

is a lot of point work with one of the tracks having 4 consecutive points joined together. Hope this will work ok ?

Can someone please give me some advice as to how to wire up this layout. Where the power feeds should be positioned and where the insulated

joiners need to go. Thanks Kevin.

 

Hi Kevin

I thought, as you specifically asked for a wiring and IRJ plan, I would provide you with one.

I have had to redraw your plan as it was in a .PDF format, hope I haven't missed any track out?

 

I have shown what I would install as a minimum. More feeds & returns can be added than shown to improve reliability if wished.

[rushdenx1]

Thanks for all the help, particularly Brian who has supplied the very useful wiring diagram above. I have made one change to the planned layout. There will now be an E199 three way point leading into the fiddle yard instead of a single line. It will be attached to the first left hand point on the layout. Could someone let me know how the three way point should be wired against the adjacent left hand point and what connections I will need at the Fiddle Yard end aswell. Many Thanks Kevin.

[Pete the Elaner]

Worry about how realistic the points move across.

 

For me, that was not an issue. I really don't care about how fast the point throws. I used Peco motors with switches on my last layout & wired them as thoroughly as I could.

One of the switches failed at an exhibition & sometimes they just did not throw at all, even if I did hear it buzz. I did not wire in route indication so had to check each point visually.

Having read some comments on here & spoken to others, Peco motors & switches seem to be unreliable so I sought an alternative & chose Tortoise.

[Brian]

Thanks for all the help, particularly Brian who has supplied the very useful wiring diagram above. I have made one change to the planned layout. There will now be an E199 three way point leading into the fiddle yard instead of a single line. It will be attached to the first left hand point on the layout. Could someone let me know how the three way point should be wired against the adjacent left hand point and what connections I will need at the Fiddle Yard end aswell. Many Thanks Kevin.

Hi

As the three way point is to be on the main board side of the dividing line, then move the red rail feed back to just before the beginning of the new point. Add the four IRJs after the point on the ends of the Vee rails and install new rail feeds beyond the IRJs and also new feed and returns to all three tracks on the fiddle yard side of the dividing line.

 

The wiring of a live frog three way point is shown on my web site....Link to my Electrical page 2 Scroll down about a 1/3 of the page.

 

[rushdenx1]

Having just paid out a lot of money for my E199 elctrofrog 3 way point, I want to make sure that I wire it up correctly. I am a novice when it comes to wiring and I still find websites showing the wiring of points very confusing. In simple terms can someone please show me:

 

1/ How the point should be wired to the pair of Seep PM1 motors, including how to get the polarity switching.

2/ Where on the point, 'power' wires need to be attach to feed to the track BUS (Do the stock and closure rails need to be linked) ?

3/ I will be making a stud and probe board, so what wires and from where, are connected to the seep motors (one end) and the stud & probe board on the other. ?

 

Apologies for asking a lot, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds wiring a little daunting. Thanks Kevin

 

[Brian]

Having just paid out a lot of money for my E199 elctrofrog 3 way point, I want to make sure that I wire it up correctly. I am a novice when it comes to wiring and I still find websites showing the wiring of points very confusing. In simple terms can someone please show me:

 

1/ How the point should be wired to the pair of Seep PM1 motors, including how to get the polarity switching.

2/ Where on the point, 'power' wires need to be attach to feed to the track BUS (Do the stock and closure rails need to be linked) ?

3/ I will be making a stud and probe board, so what wires and from where, are connected to the seep motors (one end) and the stud & probe board on the other. ?

 

Apologies for asking a lot, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds wiring a little daunting. Thanks Kevin

 

 

Hi

Its all shown on my web site (using Peco PL13 switches) but the Seep PM1 is similar.

Transpose offset common terminal on PL13 for the Seep PM1 contact 'F'. The two closer together connections on the PL13 go to the Seep PM1 connections 'D' & 'E.

 

Scroll down about a1/4 of the page to locate the two 3 way point wiring diagrams My Electrical 2 page

[Brian]

To make things as simple as possible I have drawn the wiring connections. Grey wires to connection F. Track wires (shown red & black) to connections D and E.

Note: The Red and Black track wires run off to the rails just before the beginning of the point or to the DCC bus wires.

I cannot advise onto which rail or bus wire they connect as that depends on how you have wired the track feeds. But if you get a short circuit swap the red and black wires around on the rails or the DCC bus. To make the wiring as simple as possible both motors need to face the same way.

[rushdenx1]

Thanks again Brian for your continued help. I have now wired the point as per your diagram. I want to operate the 3 way point using the 'stud & probe' method. I assume wires from terminals A, C and B on my Seep motor are used. Can you show me what wires go where and what the stud arrangement would have to be. I don't think your website shows this. Many Thanks Kevin.