Green diesel era in Cornwall

[TomJ]

Forgive me if this is an obvious question but I have searched high and low for info and there isn't much. I'm looking for information about the green diesel era post steam in Cornwall ie 1960-1970ish. It seems to be a under-photographed era. I suspect a lot of people put their cameras away after steam left.

 

My layout is very loosly inspired by the Newquay branch, a single track line that can cope with large locos and heavyish holiday traffic in the summer. When diesels took over what locos would be likely to haul the through excursion trains? Would it be Warships or Westerns? And what livery. I was only aware of Green locos but there appear to be maroon ones as well. Any suggestions as to what would be most appropriate, and what time scale these liveries were?

 

I've found plenty of photos of Castles/Halls/Counties in the late 50s, v early 60s and lots of blue Westerns from the mid 70s on but the period in between I've found little. I believe even John Vaughan's first photo in Cornwall wasn't till 1970!

 

My layout is set about 1961-62, the transition between steam and diesel, On the diesel front I have a 121 for local passengers and a class 22 for the clay, but would like something for the through expresses. Dapol's Western or Farish's Warship both seem good, but which one and which livery?

 

Thanks

[brianusa]

With the demise of steam, many railway photographers went onto a state of withdrawal.  Diesels were not high on the photographic list and it wasn't until every one realised that there was no other option, did more pictures appear.  There are several Cornwall railway books where they do show up.

 

Brian.

[Gwiwer]

D6xx, D8xx, D1xxx and D63xx would account for the WR motive power. These are commonly now referred to as classes 41, 42and 43 Warships, class 52 Westerns and class 22 baby Warships. All these classes had at least some running in green. The 800s and 1000s also ran in maroon and all also featured at least one in blue. Not all locos ever carried all three liveries and many carried variations within the basic scheme.

 

All of those saw service to Newquay with the 800s probably the most common then the 6300s. 1000s might be entrusted with holiday through trains though were generally less common west of Plymouth

 

Those with access to written records might confirm or deny but I'm fairly sure there would have been appearances by class 45 and 46 Peaks on through holiday trains.

 

Within your timeframe 6300s also worked on the Newquay - Perranporth - Truro / Redruth route which also saw the occasional 800.

[Fat Controller]

There's a few photos on this site:_

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157626494806569

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157626748755256

[Andy Kirkham]

Many Westerns carried maroon livery from the start, but it wasn't applied to the Warships until 1965 or 1966, so in your era they would only have been green.

 

It's also worth noting that although Hymeks and D95XX 0-6-0's were thoroughly Western classes, they were never seen in Cornwall apart from (in the case of Hymeks) a handful of occasions.

[jonny777]

D6xx, D8xx, D1xxx and D63xx would account for the WR motive power. These are commonly now referred to as classes 41, 42and 43 Warships, class 52 Westerns and class 22 baby Warships. All these classes had at least some running in green. The 800s and 1000s also ran in maroon and all also featured at least one in blue. Not all locos ever carried all three liveries and many carried variations within the basic scheme.

 

All of those saw service to Newquay with the 800s probably the most common then the 6300s. 1000s might be entrusted with holiday through trains though were generally less common west of Plymouth

 

Those with access to written records might confirm or deny but I'm fairly sure there would have been appearances by class 45 and 46 Peaks on through holiday trains.

 

Within your timeframe 6300s also worked on the Newquay - Perranporth - Truro / Redruth route which also saw the occasional 800.

 

 

Although with a timeline of 1961/2 as mentioned in the OP, some care would be needed with the Westerns. Only about the first 10-15 of the class could be used, and many were working on the Wolverhampton line in the early days.

[stovepipe]

You might want to check out Bernard Mills photos available from classic traction archive, e.g.

 

http://classictractionimages.weebly.com/class-42--43-d800-warships.html

 

A little later than your stated time period, but amongst the best I've seen from 1960s Cornwall.

[csiedmo]

What you may find useful is to investigate loco allocations at Laira for a given month using www.brdatabase.info

http://www.brdatabase.info/sites.php?page=depots&subpage=snap&id=298

I checked December 1962 and as already suggested there are lots and lots of Warships and Class 22s and not a great deal else.

[csiedmo]

You might want to check out Bernard Mills photos available from classic traction archive, e.g.

 

http://classictractionimages.weebly.com/class-42--43-d800-warships.html

 

A little later than your stated time period, but amongst the best I've seen from 1960s Cornwall.

 

That's an excellent resource. However, care needs to be taken as some of the captions are not quite correct. For example, over on the class 22 link, a blue liveried D6320 was never a thing, and the photo of D6335 on weedkilling duties at Bere Alston dated 5/68 seems a bit unlikely, as I doubt this particular loco made it west of Oxford after 1964 (I imagine someone has misread the date and it should be 5/63).

[Andy Kirkham]

An excellent resource for this era is John Spencer Gilks's trilogy "Dawn of the Diesels" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dawn-Diesels-v-nostalgia-collection/dp/1857940962/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1464267106&sr=1-5

 

While other were pursuing the last remaining steam locos, he concentrated on the diesel-operated lines that were mostly doomed to closure. 

[Rugd1022]

Excellent responses to the OP's questions gents, and it's also worth noting that if the layout is set in 1961/62 the Warships and 22s would still be in all over green livery, ie: without any yellow warning panels, with several of each still having the old style disc headcodes too. The build dates for all of the Hydraulics are well covered in print so it would be fairly easy to pick the right numbers for the period covered.

 

The Cornwall Railway Society site is well worth a look, for some reason I can't post the link but just google it and have a gander.

[stovepipe]

That's an excellent resource. However, care needs to be taken as some of the captions are not quite correct. For example, over on the class 22 link, a blue liveried D6320 was never a thing, and the photo of D6335 on weedkilling duties at Bere Alston dated 5/68 seems a bit unlikely, as I doubt this particular loco made it west of Oxford after 1964 (I imagine someone has misread the date and it should be 5/63).

 

Those both do look wrong. The loco on the weedkilling train looks to be D6325 which was blue by April 1967, so the date is wrong as well.

[roythebus]

Remember some of the early Westerns were painted desert sand livery.

[Tim Hall]

Remember some of the early Westerns were painted desert sand livery.

D1000 was, but no others. D1015 was golden ochre for a while.

[TomJ]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and suggestions. Some great photos. Mind you even on the excellent sites recommended there's not a huge amount of green diesels, and most seem to be class 22 on soon to be shut branchlines. I guess through trains, diesel hauled just weren't exciting enough to 'wasting' film on

 

Looks like I might be ordering a Farish Warship to pull my summer excursion trains. Just need to finish the layout.....

[Rugd1022]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and suggestions. Some great photos. Mind you even on the excellent sites recommended there's not a huge amount of green diesels, and most seem to be class 22 on soon to be shut branchlines. I guess through trains, diesel hauled just weren't exciting enough to 'wasting' film on

 

Looks like I might be ordering a Farish Warship to pull my summer excursion trains. Just need to finish the layout.....

 

It's an odd thing when it comes to looking for decent shots of 22s in 'action', there just aren't that many of them pictured out on the mainlines, most shots are taken in / around stations or on depots.

 

If you have a look at the two 'Western Liveries' threads I added to the Diesel Hydraulic section of the forum you'll see which ones entered traffic during your time period, D1000 was the only one to emerge in 1961, with D1001-D1014 and D1035-D1046 emerging in 1962.

[Rivercider]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and suggestions. Some great photos. Mind you even on the excellent sites recommended there's not a huge amount of green diesels, and most seem to be class 22 on soon to be shut branchlines. I guess through trains, diesel hauled just weren't exciting enough to 'wasting' film on

That was my initial reaction to your question for diesels in 1961/2, green class 22s on local branch work with green D600 and D800 Warships on some of the though services, as well as DMUs,

 

cheers

[keefer]

wondered if there's anything of interest for you in David Hey's Collection?

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page22.htm

 

(it's a pretty long page, so give it time to load)

 

There are other WR pages, this is no.2 which seems to have more diesels featured

[jonny777]

That was my initial reaction to your question for diesels in 1961/2, green class 22s on local branch work with green D600 and D800 Warships on some of the though services, as well as DMUs,

 

cheers

 

 

Although if it was the early 1960s and the steam/diesel transition era, some of the through trains on a seaside branch might still be worked by a couple of 2-6-2Ts.

 

 

[Zomboid]

An excellent resource for this era is John Spencer Gilks's trilogy "Dawn of the Diesels" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dawn-Diesels-v-nostalgia-collection/dp/1857940962/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1464267106&sr=1-5

 

While other were pursuing the last remaining steam locos, he concentrated on the diesel-operated lines that were mostly doomed to closure.

Have to agree there. I have volumes 1&2 and they're fascinating. Things like DMUs on the withered arm that I've never seen anywhere else. I'd have imagined it went from steam to closed before I saw those books.

[Gwiwer]

DMUs and 22s worked the "Withered Arm" (SR routes beyond Exeter) in the final years. 22s worked freight, milk and china clay mostly, between Barnstaple Junction, Bideford and Meeth. The final day from Okehampton to Padstow famously saw BR provide a single bubblecar to shift the hundreds who had come for one last ride. 22s also reached Wadebridge via Bodmin and I believe one 800 also did. Diesels came early to the south west and ran on almost every line then open.

[Rivercider]

Hydraulics in the West by David Cable has several photos of class 22s on Cornish branches including local trains to Newquay.

 

Diesel Hydraulics in the West Country by Derek Huntriss and Peter Gray has three photos, albeit on the mainline,

of class 22s double heading with Halls.

I believe heavy summer trains to Newquay were assisted to/from Par so possibly a class 22/Hall combination may have occured on the branch,

 

cheers 

[edcayton]

Look out for the work of Carey Bachelor (sp?). One reason for not many photo's of 22's in action is because they were so often out of action.

 

Ed

[stovepipe]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and suggestions. Some great photos. Mind you even on the excellent sites recommended there's not a huge amount of green diesels, and most seem to be class 22 on soon to be shut branchlines. I guess through trains, diesel hauled just weren't exciting enough to 'wasting' film on

 

Looks like I might be ordering a Farish Warship to pull my summer excursion trains. Just need to finish the layout.....

 

The 22's had much more passenger and pilot work in Devon:

https://flic.kr/p/7SVK1G

https://flic.kr/p/yDcT8e

https://flic.kr/p/F9pPv8

https://flic.kr/p/yzPrVY

https://flic.kr/p/hZUeCT

 

And finally a big and little Warship

https://flic.kr/p/DYEdee

[chrisf]

A few supplementary points if I may.

 

The use of diesel locos in Cornwall began in 1958.  The first dmus arrived in 1960 in the form of 3 car and 2-car Class 118 sets.  They were set to work on the Plymouth - Saltash shuttle and Truro - Falmouth branch [2 car sets] and some stoppers between Plymouth and Penzance [3 car sets].  In the spring of 1961 some Class 122 bubble cars arrived, having been replaced at Southall and Reading by new Class 121s.  They were used on the Fowey branch and, in pairs, on the Saltash workings.  The Fowey car spent the night at St Blazey.  As more units arrived other lines were brought within their sphere of operation.  The Class 120 Cross-Country sets with headcode panels below the driving cab windows arrived in the spring of 1962, to be joined shortly afterwards by seven Class 116 sets displaced from Newport by branch closures.  More 116s arrived in 1964 following service reductions in South Wales.  By this time also the WR had taken over the Southern territory west of Salisbury and the stock of dmus was spread rather thinly.  Enthusiasts of the period seemed to take little interest in the transition and observations are sparse to say the least.

 

Chris