Can two DCC controllers be used on one layout?

[Ruston]

I would like to have friends over for playing trains and so would like to know if more than one controller can be used on the same layout. That is can two locos run on the same piece of track under the control of two seperate controllers?

 

I currently have Prodigy Express and as it's quite basic I don't expect it's possible but would be willing to buy a different control system that can do this, if such a thing exists...

[Ray H]

You can definitely have several controller's with NCE equipment with up to two throttles connected adjacent to each other. To my knowledge the limitation is down to the highest number you can assign to a cab/throttle which from memory is around 99.

 

I don't have any knowledge of the Prodigy but the Prodigy manual suggests that you can indeed have multiple cabs/throttles with their system.

[Talltim]

delete

[Crosland]

It depends what you mean by "controller".

 

You can only connect one booster (or command station if it includes the booster) to the track. So there's no point in friends bringing their complete DCC system along.

 

After that it is down to how many handsets(/throttles/cabs) you have and how much power from the booster. If they have the same system then friends can bring their handsets and connect them, subject to requirements and limitations of each type of system. Otherwise, buy more handsets for your system.

[Glorious NSE]

A quick google suggests you can add a Prodigy *Advance* handset to your system to give you a second handset.

From: http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DCC01

 

 

 

If you wish to extend your EXPRESS system, this is easily achievable by adding a Prodigy ADVANCE Walkaround as is Wireless capability by using the DCC51 Wireless conversion set.

[Ruston]

It depends what you mean by "controller".

 

The handset. The thing with the buttons and knobs, the speed, direction and functions keys.

 

The box that plugs in to the mains transformer does have a slot for a "booster" but I'm not sure what the booster is. Does it mean another handset?

[traction]

The handset. The thing with the buttons and knobs, the speed, direction and functions keys.

 

The box that plugs in to the mains transformer does have a slot for a "booster" but I'm not sure what the booster is. Does it mean another handset?

 

On the front of the Express base station is the CAB port where you can plug other cabs in. You can also buy an adapter which will allow even more cabs to be plugged in.

You can just buy another handset/cab (and give it a different address) plug it in and away you go.

You could buy the prodigy wireless conversion set(DCC51 200GBP) plug the receiver into the port on the base station and that cab is fully wireless.

Or cheaper buy the Prodigy Advance² Backlit Walkaround controller (DCC14 99GBP) and then you have another fully featured controller.

 

Both of these will allow more things than the basic Express handset.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Talltim]

The handset. The thing with the buttons and knobs, the speed, direction and functions keys.

 

The box that plugs in to the mains transformer does have a slot for a "booster" but I'm not sure what the booster is. Does it mean another handset?

A booster basically provides more power to the layout, if you have a lot of (sound fitted especially) locos on the go at once. You can use it to split the layout Ito two power districts, this means that if you get a short it only kills half the layout. However it sounds like your layout isn't big enough to worry about such things

[Oakydoke]

It depends what you mean by "controller".

The handset. The thing with the buttons and knobs, the speed, direction and functions keys.

I think Anthony Crossland hits the nail on the head. What do you mean by "controller".

In DCC the term is virtually redundant with respect to the control system and its components. The "controller" function, as we understand it in a DC sense, is in fact moved to the decoders that perform the actual functions "commanded" by the DCC system. Hence the name written on the tin, Digital Command Control.

A handset is just that, a handset, hosting the Cab or Throttle function.

 

 

The box that plugs in to the mains transformer does have a slot for a "booster" but I'm not sure what the booster is. Does it mean another handset?

A "Booster", otherwise known as a "Power Station", is the part of the system that provides the track power, encoded with the DCC commands (signals).

The "box" you mention is the main system unit containing the Prodigy Express's Command Station and Booster.

The socket marked "Booster" or "Booster Bus", allows extra boosters to be added to the system in order to provide additional power the layout, normally by using each booster to power a different part of the layout.

 

To connect extra handsets (cabs/throttles), you will need an extension plate(s) as there is only a single cab socket on the system box.

Alternatively, you could buy the wireless conversion kit and use Prodigy Wireless handsets.

 

http://www.modelrectifier.com/resources/dcc/0001420manual.pdf

 

There's a useful diagram in the PE manual linked to above.

[Ruston]

Thanks, everyone. It's sounding rather complicated with power districts, boosters and cabs. It's all going over my head to be honest. I look at that manual and it may as well be written in Swahili.

 

You could buy the prodigy wireless conversion set(DCC51 200GBP) plug the receiver into the port on the base station and that cab is fully wireless.

 

if I plug that in to the base station how does that help? Don't I have to disconnect the existing handset first? Or do you mean that this wireless conversion plugs into the "booster" socket and the existing handset remains plugged in where it is? If that's the case then that sounds like the easiest option and I like the idea of wireless for when I'm operating the layout on my own.

[Oakydoke]

if I plug that in to the base station how does that help? Don't I have to disconnect the existing handset first? Or do you mean that this wireless conversion plugs into the "booster" socket and the existing handset remains plugged in where it is? If that's the case then that sounds like the easiest option and I like the idea of wireless for when I'm operating the layout on my own.

As the Express only has the one cab socket, the wireless adapter would be plugged in there and you would lose the ability to also plug in your existing Express handset.

To get around this you would need to plug a Prodigy extension adapter plate, or a Prodigy walk around adapter (basically a splitter box), into that single cab socket, then you could plug both the wireless adapter and the original Express handset in at the same time.

 

The only thing you can plug into the booster socket, is another booster.

[traction]

Oakydoke has summed it up nicely.

 

I have an MRC explorer which also only has one CAB socket.

 

SO I bought the GaugeMaster DCC77 which is a Prodigy Walkaround adapter, this happens to be only 10GBP, which is very much cheaper than the "correct" one at over 35GBP!

 

 

 

 

This is the adapter, plug goes into the CAB port on the base station, you can now plug in your current CAB in one socket and another CAB in the other, or like in the first photo, this has the wireless conversion receiver plugged in.

 

I've done a review, link below of the wireless conversion set:-

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106867-dcc-controller-list-basic-review-by-owners/?p=2266128

 

It's very nice not being tied to the layout with a cable, but there are a few compromises.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Gordon H]

I think Anthony Crossland hits the nail on the head.

 

 

Andrew, not Anthony...

You may thinking of the politician, now long departed - and with only one 's'.

[Crosland]

Andrew, not Anthony...

You may thinking of the politician, now long departed - and with only one 's'.

 

Common confusion, so forgiven. I'm also one 's', but very different politics:)

[Oakydoke]

Apologies Andrew.

A slight slip of the brain on my part.

[Ruston]

I've been thinking about getting round to doing something about this, so more questions...

 

 

A booster basically provides more power to the layout, if you have a lot of (sound fitted especially) locos on the go at once. You can use it to split the layout Ito two power districts, this means that if you get a short it only kills half the layout. However it sounds like your layout isn't big enough to worry about such things

 

I spoke to Jeremy from Digitrains at a show, recently. He said that I needed another handset (obviously) and what I guess is a booster. What I don't understand is how, if I wire two power sources (so-called "boosters") to my track, it isn't doubling the voltage? Is this why "power districts" are needed and if so, surely this means the layout is split and one handset can only control the district that it is wired to and the other handset controls its own, therefore through running on any part of the layout on one particular handset is not possible?

[Nigelcliffe]

I've been thinking about getting round to doing something about this, so more questions...

 

 

 

I spoke to Jeremy from Digitrains at a show, recently. He said that I needed another handset (obviously) and what I guess is a booster. What I don't understand is how, if I wire two power sources (so-called "boosters") to my track, it isn't doubling the voltage? Is this why "power districts" are needed and if so, surely this means the layout is split and one handset can only control the district that it is wired to and the other handset controls its own, therefore through running on any part of the layout on one particular handset is not possible?

 

Several misconceptions look to be present, so lets try to deal with them.

 

Components of a DCC system:   

Handset (throttle), which sends instructions to a single Command Station.  The Command Station generates the track signal, and passes it out to a Booster.  The Booster is connected to the track, and is the part which sets the track voltage and available maximum current (hence number of locos that can run).   

All DCC systems have these basic elements, either within a single box, or two boxes (separate throttle plus a combined "Command Station-Booster" box), or three separate boxes.    

There is only ever ONE Command Station(*).   There can be multiple Throttles.   There can be multiple Boosters. 

 

 

 

1 - Multiple throttle handsets.   Most systems support many handsets.  Each handset sends instructions to the Command Station (the brains which controls everything).  The Command Station then sends out instructions via a Booster to the track. 

It is possible to have two handsets controlling the same loco, and that can lead to conflicts.  Different makers solve this in different ways, either by prohibiting two controllers on the same locomotive, or by having a method to keep both handsets in step (so changes on one are reflected on the other). 

 

2 -  In a larger layout, one needs extra Boosters to increase the current to allow more locos to run.   There is still only One Command Station that is sending instructions to all of the Boosters which power the track.  The Boosters simply provide current in their area.    

The layout is electrically split into separate sections, and each fed from one of the Boosters.   The voltage doesn't change. 

The available current within a section is whatever the Booster can deliver.  

The total current for the entire layout is higher; its the sum of all the Boosters (including the Booster within the Command Station if that's still wired to one section of track), so over the entire layout more trains can be run simultaneously.   

As a loco crosses from one Booster to another, the loco might be drawing power from either Booster (or even a bit from each).   The wiring of Boosters (assuming one follows the makers instructions) will ensure there isn't any way to cause damage as this transition occurs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(* there are very clever ways of using several command stations, but lets not go there, its only relevant for truly massive layouts that would fill a sports hall).

 

- Nigel

[geoff]

I've been thinking about getting round to doing something about this, so more questions...

 

 

 

I spoke to Jeremy from Digitrains at a show, recently. He said that I needed another handset (obviously) and what I guess is a booster. What I don't understand is how, if I wire two power sources (so-called "boosters") to my track, it isn't doubling the voltage? Is this why "power districts" are needed and if so, surely this means the layout is split and one handset can only control the district that it is wired to and the other handset controls its own, therefore through running on any part of the layout on one particular handset is not possible?

 

A dcc system comprises two elements typically. A data bus, Express net for Lenz based systems or Loconet for Digitrax based systems, there may be others. The controllers or throttles connect to this and send their commands to the command station over this. The command station then sends those commands out to the track bus which carries the power for the trains. A booster is also connected to the same data bus and then passes the commands onto its part of the layout through its track bus section so that control of the trains continues as they pass from one power district to another. You can connect as many controllers/throttles, as your system will support. Your manual will tell you how many controllers/throttles the system will support. 

 

Geoff

Oh, Nigel beat me to it as I was interrupted by a phone call so disregard my input, Nigel's will be a better answer.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....I spoke to Jeremy from Digitrains at a show, recently. He said that I needed another handset (obviously) and what I guess is a booster.

Dave (Ruston), you say "guess"?

Are you sure and do you remember in what context the suggestion "may" have been made?

 

 

....What I don't understand is how, if I wire two power sources (so-called "boosters") to my track, it isn't doubling the voltage?

You don't wire two power sources to the same track.

If another Booster is used, it will be connected to its own section of the layout (called a Power District), isolated from the section of the layout powered by the main track output from your system's own built-in Booster (that's another Power District).

It won't double the voltage.

 

 

Is this why "power districts" are needed and if so, surely this means the layout is split and one handset can only control the district that it is wired to and the other handset controls its own, therefore through running on any part of the layout on one particular handset is not possible?

No offence intended Dave, but It seems you are a bit muddled up here.

It might be best to take a step back to understand the very simple fundamental principles involved in what DCC is and how it differs from analogue DC control.

Do ask questions. Lots of people will try to help if they can.

 

Nigel has clearly laid out the basic components of a DCC system.

It really is very simple to follow, without getting into technicalities or complex language.

 

With regards to your specific question, your handset is used to send instructions, via the Command Station, to individual trains out on the layout, wherever they may be.

A handset does not control any section of track.

Any number of handsets can be used to control any number of trains, subject to the number of handsets the particular DCC system supports and subject to the power capability of the DCC system (booster power etc).

 

Ron

 

 

.

[Pete the Elaner]

I've been thinking about getting round to doing something about this, so more questions...

 

 

 

I spoke to Jeremy from Digitrains at a show, recently. He said that I needed another handset (obviously) and what I guess is a booster. What I don't understand is how, if I wire two power sources (so-called "boosters") to my track, it isn't doubling the voltage? Is this why "power districts" are needed and if so, surely this means the layout is split and one handset can only control the district that it is wired to and the other handset controls its own, therefore through running on any part of the layout on one particular handset is not possible?

I have just re-read the first post.

Prodigy Express...I can't see any other connections on it so I don't think you can connect any extra throttles or boosters.

The only option mentioned on Gaugemaster's website is to add a wireless conversion set. This provides an extra connection which your existing throttle plugs in to.

That is an expensive second handset.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I have just re-read the first post.

Prodigy Express...I can't see any other connections on it so I don't think you can connect any extra throttles or boosters.

The only option mentioned on Gaugemaster's website is to add a wireless conversion set. This provides an extra connection which your existing throttle plugs in to.

That is an expensive second handset.

 

There is a Booster output.

There is only one throttle/cab socket, but an adapter can be purchased and a throttle bus can be connected via that single socket.

 

From the MRC Prodigy Express² user manual.....

 

 

 

(page 2-3)   You can use up to 20 Cabs with the Prodigy Express.....

 

(page 2-4)   Adding More Cabs.

The base unit of your Prodigy Express² DCC system has one Cab Jack.

If you use more than one Cab or you want to install extra Cab Jacks around your layout, you need to use MRC Prodigy Advance Extension Plates (item no. 0001501).

With those plates you can easily install Cab Jacks all around your layout.

The base unit is able to power 6 Cabs. After that, for every 5 Cabs you need a special extension plate with a built in power supply (item no. 0001502) to boost power for Cabs.

 

 

 

.

 

 

.

[GoingUnderground]

NEVER connect the track outputs from two different DCC systems to one layout, not even if they are the same make. If you do, you may well destroy the two systems, and your friends won't thank you for that.

 

If you don't understand what is meant by power districts and boosters then definitely don't go try plugging friends' DCC kit into your Prodigy system even if the connectors on the leads look like they'll fit. They may well have different wiring conventions which could destroy both pieces of kit.

 

If you want friends to come over and control locos on your layout at the same time, you will need additional throttles that are compatible with your Prodigy system.

[Ruston]

If you want friends to come over and control locos on your layout at the same time, you will need additional throttles that are compatible with your Prodigy system.

That is exactly what I am trying to do.

 

I have found the piece of paper with the things written on that I was told, by Digitrains, that I need and have looked them up.

 

First is this, which is pretty straightforward and obvious: http://digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/?loc=1&q=0001415&c=1&m=0

 

And this, which I can't quite work out what it all does:

 

http://digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/0001501-extension-box-and-cablekit-for-prodigy-dcc-system.aspx

 

I guess the double socket plugs into my existing Prodigy Express base unit (or whatever the technical term is) and then both handsets/controllers (whatever you want to call them) plug into the double socket?

 

But what does the other thing do? The thing with two metal prongs?

[Stubby47]

Having multiple handsets on Black Country Blues can be fun if you call up a loco supposed to be in the control of another operator...

 

Allegedly.

[Talltim]

That is exactly what I am trying to do.

 

I have found the piece of paper with the things written on that I was told, by Digitrains, that I need and have looked them up.

 

First is this, which is pretty straightforward and obvious: http://digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/?loc=1&q=0001415&c=1&m=0

 

And this, which I can't quite work out what it all does:

 

http://digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/0001501-extension-box-and-cablekit-for-prodigy-dcc-system.aspx

 

I guess the double socket plugs into my existing Prodigy Express base unit (or whatever the technical term is) and then both handsets/controllers (whatever you want to call them) plug into the double socket?

 

But what does the other thing do? The thing with two metal prongs?

It looks like some sort of power supply with a foreign plug, but I can't work out what for. The pic in the MRC site (the Prodigy manufacturers) site just shows the socket plate and the extension cable http://www.modelrectifier.com/product-p/0001501.htm as does this pic (which does seem to have another cable but no power supply) http://www.trainmastermodels.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=29949