DCC Handsets for sound - which one?

[coachmann]

I have a Lenz LH90 handset with speed control wheel, which is great to a point. However the handset has few F-keys and holds only 8 loco addresses. I am looking for a larger handset that has speed control wheel and at least 19 F-keys so I can manually access all the various steam sounds. I see Gaugemaster has a large handset wiht plenty of buttons as do a few others. Can anyone recommend one or tell me which ones to avoid. My system is Lenz, so will they integrate?

 

Thanks.

[cromptonnut]

Don't have an easy solution but I have a laptop running JMRI connected to my layout through the Lenz interface which does allow me to control the higher number functions alongside the more basic 8 functions of the set 90 which I also have.

 

Another option (but don't ask me how...) is to remap some of the chip sound functions to the lower level numbers (through CV's) so the ones you want to use the most are available through the controller buttons rather than those that the chip is delivered with.

[Nick G]

so will they integrate?

 

 

 

 

No, only a Roco Multimaus will integrate with a Lenz system.

I used Lenz on my previous two exhibition layouts but due to lack of updates or new kit I now use the NCE Powercab on my new small layout.  

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

In general DCC sound requires quite a bit more button pushing and knob twirling to 'play' the sounds to your satisfaction. It isn't strictly necessary as such to access the higher function numbers as bluntly, it can be a real test of memory to remember which function does what plus some of the sounds require a read of the instructions to ascertain what they are.

 

It is very very useful indeed to have two throttle knobs and a screen that tells you which function is latched on and which are not. Even more useful to be able to latch or unlatch each individual function.

 

I use Digitrax equipment and no it won't interface with Lenz. There is no standardisation of controller hardware or software and as long as they have the basic ways of handling CV's, they are considered compliant.

 

Another very useful feature is to be able to read and write individual CVs.

 

I am not as up to speed with controllers as I used to be but Digitrax are still producing the same kit but with apparent software upgrades.

 

ECoS is another sophisticated system.

 

None of this stuff is cheap. Neither of the systems you mention will do most of the above. If you really want a throttle wheel, afaik only NCE offer this and are expandable, also at great extra cost.

[pauliebanger]

Don't have an easy solution but I have a laptop running JMRI connected to my layout through the Lenz interface which does allow me to control the higher number functions alongside the more basic 8 functions of the set 90 which I also have.

 

 

 

You could take this a stage further. Use a wireless router connected to the computor with JMRI running and a cheap tablet running a suitable app, eg Engine Driver for Android or its equivalent for i-os.

 

A screen of 5 inch or above will display all 29 Fkeys simultaneously, but what is really interesting is that you can set each F key to operate momentary or latching, even if your hardware throttle is incapable of this eg PowerCab.

 

You also get the advantage of wireless remote control. Tactile feedback is not the same as it would be with a hardware 'knob' though.

 

Also worth a look is Signa-Trak which has a touch screen with an option to display all usable F keys on one 'page'. http://www.gfbdesigns.co.uk/

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[chaz]

The Lenz LH100 is a good handset or you could use a Roco Multimaus if the speed wheel is important to you. These could be bought cheaply from Germany where dealers who are breaking up sets sell the control systems on. What the post referendum exchange rate has done to these prices you will have to check out!

[devonseasider]

I am looking for a larger handset that has speed control wheel and at least 19 F-keys so I can manually access all the various steam sounds.

 

 

Roco Multimaus has already been mentioned as compatible with Lenz.

 

This has a centre-off speed wheel, access to 20 functions & will store enough loco descriptions to keep you out of mischief for quite some time.

As has been said, they're (relatively) dirt-cheap from ebay Germany, tho' will have gone up in price now we're no longer proper Europeans.

I've been using a couple for quite some time on "Tormouth Quay" (4mm home/exhibition layout) & "Wedmore" (7mm with sound).  Do everything I want them to do.

Possible drawbacks are:

1.  Centre-off position on some handsets isn't as positive as it could be.

2.  Don't allow read-back of CV settings.  Personally, I don't find this a problem.

[tractor_37260]

Roco Multimaus has already been mentioned as compatible with Lenz.

 

This has a centre-off speed wheel, access to 20 functions & will store enough loco descriptions to keep you out of mischief for quite some time.

As has been said, they're (relatively) dirt-cheap from ebay Germany, tho' will have gone up in price now we're no longer proper Europeans.

I've been using a couple for quite some time on "Tormouth Quay" (4mm home/exhibition layout) & "Wedmore" (7mm with sound).  Do everything I want them to do.

Possible drawbacks are:

1.  Centre-off position on some handsets isn't as positive as it could be.

2.  Don't allow read-back of CV settings.  Personally, I don't find this a problem.

 

access to 20 functions  - YES but only when used with Roco's own amp  - only F0 to F12 when used with a Lenz LZV100 (V3.6)

 

The centre off position can be fine tuned/adjusted via the settings menu

 

The LH100 Lenz throttle works well with sound fitted locos - the latest V3.6 has F0 - F28 available.

[Gilloverland]

In my opinion, when playing with sound, there's nothing gives easier control than a z21 through a tablet or smart phone, all the function can be assigned a symbol and a few short letters so you know what does what.

[coachmann]

I must thank everyone for their input. Working via computers is way beyond my knowledge, but I have taken on board all the things that have been mentioned. 

[Meld9003]

If you already have Lenz then the obvious answer is an LH100 handset with the latest software, albeit no wheel, as it will give you access to all 28 functions with the ability to all of them as intermittent or latching. This isn't perfect, but is still a pretty good implementation. Another alternative might be to look at an Uhlenbrock Daisy II set. This only gives you intermittent/latching up to F24, but this may not be a problem, depending on your sound set. However, it does let you choose icons for each function to help you know what you are selecting. Nigel Cliffe has written about it on this forum. I think it's probably the most ergonomic handset out there at the moment.

 

Personally, I recommend you try and get to an exhibition where Coastal DCC are attending as they carry most of the systems and you can have a play and see which fits your hand. I have compared NCE to the Daisy II and for me the Daisy II won hands down.

[chaz]

It might be worth pointing out that I have 15 or so loco's - both steam and diesel - all equipped with sound and I very rarely need access to any sound outside the range F1 - F12.

 

Chaz

[coachmann]

I only have three F-keys to play with on the LH90. F1 is mute and we usually put loco whistles on 2,3 & 4. This is why I prefer built-in random sounds.

[devonseasider]

access to 20 functions  - YES but only when used with Roco's own amp  - only F0 to F12 when used with a Lenz LZV100 (V3.6)

 

 

Ooops  -  didn't realise that.  Apologies for any confusion.

 

 

 

The centre off position can be fine tuned/adjusted via the settings menu

 

Actually I was referring there to the physical "click" as the wheel reaches the centre-off position.  On some handsets it's a very definite, positive feel but on others it's so soft that it's easy to miss it.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The answer to the original query, is that most handsets are not at all suited to an extended range of function controls, whether sound effects or otherwise.

The reason being that most of these are old legacy designs, dating from a time before on-board sound and an extended range of possible loco functions became commonplace.

 

Even where handsets are furnished with a plethora of function buttons, there is a physical limit to how many can be sensibly or practically included. 

Then there is the issue of remembering what function does what, for each particular loco.

Ploughing through menus , or referring to "cheat sheets" is not ideal either and can be annoyingly cumbersome.

 

The Lenz LH90 & LH100 are typically afflicted by this shortcoming and the only way of improving on the situation with the Lenz system currently, is to use the TouchCab app on an iOS device (iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad).

 

Glass screens on console type systems (e.g. ECoS, Commander, ACE etc,) or smart devices (smartphones, tablets etc,) with suitably designed adaptive user interfaces ,are far better equipped to deal with all these new toys, but many users still prefer a handset with physical control knob.

One of the big advantages with such interfaces, is that virtual buttons for sound and other functions can be presented and identified by the use of icons (pictures) or text.

They can be presented only when needed and only for the functions available on any particular loco.

 

Thankfully there are now a couple of solutions available which combine the advantages of a glass screen, with the use of a physical control knob. One of these might be a better solution for someone, like the OP, looking to utilise a wider range of sound and other functions.

 

One example can be seen in this recent video.....

 

[coachmann]

Thanks Ron. Interesting stuff although I admit it is way beyond where I want to go (I only recently donated my 16 yrs old Mobile to a museum haha).  

 

The conclusion is to buy a second Lenz LH90 type handset and put loco addresses beyond the current eight in that. Sorted. Then I need a LH100 for reading CV's and altering CV's. Also a 5amp transformer, but it's only a hobby so there is no hurry. My earlier thoughts on plenty of F-keys was misplaced. I did have an ESU Loksound decoder with loads of sounds on F-keys. It has gone now and so I don't need all the keys. I usually allocate the three F-keys on the LH90 to varying loco whistles. 

[two tone green]

I can vouch for how good the ESU Mobile Control 2 is with regards controlling locos with lots of function. Sound or real ones.

[Jintyman]

Hi Coachman,

 

I believe the Roco Multimaus is the option best suited for you and your requirements in my humble opinion.

The control handset will simply plug in to your existing Lenz system and as mentioned above will give you F1 - F12, which is four times as many as you have currently got.

Another added function of the Multimaus is that you can name your engines with a 5 digit alpha/numeric code for easy recognition.

 

They are currently on offer from broken up new sets, and found on that famous auction site for £80 - £100 of your finest British groats (Which is a bit cheaper than a replacement LH90 handset).

 

HTH

Jinty

[coachmann]

I did consider the Roco Multimouse but can it be used to alter CV's? I believe it won't do 'read-back'. Thoughts at the mo are for getting a LH100 handset seeing as PGH uses one to set my CV's and can therefore teach me how to use it. The only CV's I have managed to do for myself on the LH90 was putting in a new address on the programming track. For chuff rate, coasting and a mirriad other alterations to CV's I pester poor Philip to feed in numbers to see where they land and then proceed from there until each of my locos performs as I feel it should. 

[tractor_37260]

I did consider the Roco Multimouse but can it be used to alter CV's? I believe it won't do 'read-back'. Thoughts at the mo are for getting a LH100 handset seeing as PGH uses one to set my CV's and can therefore teach me how to use it. The only CV's I have managed to do for myself on the LH90 was putting in a new address on the programming track. For chuff rate, coasting and a mirriad other alterations to CV's I pester poor Philip to feed in numbers to see where they land and then proceed from there until each of my locos performs as I feel it should. 

 

Provided you can do without a throttle knob and use buttons instead ?  then the Lenz LH100 would be a better buy, especially as your already using Lenz.  It makes altering the CV's to adjust the running etc very easy, once you get the hang off it. It's always a good idea to "read back" what value is in any CV and note it down, BEFORE changing it - that way if your not happy with the results - you can just change it back.  

With the LH100 CV's can be changed on the main (POM) meaning you can instantly see/hear differences when the loco is still moving on the track etc.

 

I've used a Lenz Set 100 (currently V3.6) for the last 9+ years, with no problems 

[coachmann]

Thanks Tractor_37260. I have eventually settled on getting a LH100 and if I dont like controlling my locos with buttons then I can always get Roco with dial and put addresses above the existing eight on that handset. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

With regard to the LH90 handset, do note that it was discontinued about 2 years ago and although stocks of new ones (and SET 90's) have still been available, they are now quite scarce.

 

Its replacement, the LH01, does PoM.

 

 

p.s. A brand new LH100 can be had for €143 (£120)

 

 

.

[PaulCheffus]

I did consider the Roco Multimouse but can it be used to alter CV's? I believe it won't do 'read-back'. Thoughts at the mo are for getting a LH100 handset seeing as PGH uses one to set my CV's and can therefore teach me how to use it. The only CV's I have managed to do for myself on the LH90 was putting in a new address on the programming track. For chuff rate, coasting and a mirriad other alterations to CV's I pester poor Philip to feed in numbers to see where they land and then proceed from there until each of my locos performs as I feel it should. 

Hi

 

I believe the Multimaus will do read back if attached to a Lenz LVZ100 though I've never tried it.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[coachmann]

With regard to the LH90 handset, do note that it was discontinued about 2 years ago and although stocks of new ones (and SET 90's) have still been available, they are now quite scarce.

 

Its replacement, the LH01, does PoM.

 

p.s. A brand new LH100 can be had for €143 (£120)

Thanks for that Ron. I bought an LH100 for £140.00 earlier in the afternoon so I missed the £120.00 one somewhere along the googling. I realised the LH 90 was getting scarce when I purchased mine last year. 

[Jintyman]

I'll be getting a Multimaus in the next couple of months myself to go with my LH100, as I sold my last one to a friend who wanted easy control and liked it.

 

Once I get my new one, you're welcome to pop over and try it out, should have a decent length of run by then and a few with sound.

 

Jinty