Standard Brakevan Regional Markings

[Evertrainz]

Hello all,

 

I find myself ending up here whenever a brakevan question arises, what is this, around my 3rd or 4th thread?

 

Anyways, my current question is somewhat simple: What were all the possible BR Standard 20T Brakevan regions? On Paul Bartlett's site, I see 'London Midland', on some shots of preserved (Nene Valley?) Brakevans, I see 'Eastern' lettered on the side. Does this mean that there were occasional region indicators for Brakevans that worked rakes that crossed multiple regions? Western? I suppose the sight of a Toad itself screams out 'Western', so most likely not. Southern? Northern? I'm fascinated by the way some brakevans are marked while the majority is not.

 

Ron

[Evertrainz]

Not verified in real life, but shots from a rail simulator suggest that 'Scottish' could also be found.

 

Ron

[Fat Controller]

I suspect BR Standard Vans were built according to Regional allocations, but can't find my copy of Gent to confirm or refute this. However, a quick gander at 'British Railway Wagons Volume 5 : Cattle and Brake Vans' by the late Geof Gamble produced a few examples:-

B951480 (Dia 1/506, lot 2207) is an ex-works shot at Faverdale from 1951, bearing the words 'Eastern Group' under the number

B952103 (Dia 1/506, lot 2478) ex-works in 1953, but photographed at Kirkby Stephen East, bears 'Western Region' with a note in the text suggesting these brandings ceased from 1957.

The Western often branded their 'vans 'RU', usually with a yard or station name appended. However, in the same book is to be found a photo of B955230, built in 1962, and photographed in 1977. It carries the following:-

RU Paddington

10.20 p.m.(SX) Paddington- Hackney

2.00 p.m. (SO) Acton- Hackney

6.50 p.m.  Newton Abbot- Acton(SX)/ Paddington (SO)

11.40 a.m. Acton- Paddington 

 'Hackney' is the yard at Newton Abbot

I wonder how often this diagram was observed?

[Porcy Mane]

I wonder how often this diagram was observed?

 

Ahem: Newcastle Central on the Cliffe/Uddingston Cemflos's.

BR 20Ton Brake Van by Tony Lambert, on Flickr

 

Some early  build BR Brakes were branded with their regional allocation like this one photographed in Feb 1957.

A full list appears in Eric Gents Brake Van book. 

 

Also some early BR diagram brakes had quite prominent branding, naming specific works and date by which time that brakevan had to be returned to. (I assume for maintenance) Also some of the last 100 built had this branding. (See pic above)

I have read elsewhere that the last batch of 100 had originally to return to Ashford Works for checks on hydraulic draw gear but I've been under quite a few of the last 100 brakes supposedly fitted and have occasionally dispatched mates to do the same. So far we've found no evidence of fitting of hydraulic gear but having said that, I've no idea what form the hydraulic apparatus took. If it had been fitted then removed it left no witness marks.

 

Re GWR toads. My uncles GWR toad branded "RU Marazion" turned up in Newcastle Central in about 1963. It even got a mention in Railway Observer.

 

P

Edited July 18, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[AberdeenBill]

I think 'Eastern Group' covered the Eastern, North Eastern and Scottish Regions.  

 

Bill

[Fat Controller]

So there were at least two 'vans bearing that litany. Interesting to note they had consecutive numbers. 

[Porcy Mane]

So there were at least two 'vans bearing that litany. Interesting to note they had consecutive numbers. 

as with 955240-1, 955242-3: (OOC): 951058-9 (Acton): 951063-4 (Padd). The OOC, Acton and Padd vans were branded for different routings.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Evertrainz]

So it's fairly clear that these were only seen on earlier builds. Spurring from the idea that Brakes were rarely re-painted, from my earlier thread, would it be safe to assume that these regional brandings would stay on for a while until the TOPS boxes came about?

 

Ron

[Evertrainz]

Ahem: Newcastle Central on the Cliffe/Uddingston Cemflos's.

BR 20Ton Brake Van by Tony Lambert, on Flickr

 

Some early build BR Brakes were branded with their regional allocation like this one photographed in Feb 1957.

B951645-Feb57DetailSm.jpg

A full list appears in Eric Gents Brake Van book.

 

Also some early BR diagram brakes had quite prominent branding, naming specific works and date by which time that brakevan had to be returned to. (I assume for maintenance) Also some of the last 100 built had this branding. (See pic above)

I have read elsewhere that the last batch of 100 had originally to return to Ashford Works for checks on hydraulic draw gear but I've been under quite a few of the last 100 brakes supposedly fitted and have occasionally dispatched mates to do the same. So far we've found no evidence of fitting of hydraulic gear but having said that, I've no idea what form the hydraulic apparatus took. If it had been fitted then removed it left no witness marks.

 

Re GWR toads. My uncles GWR toad branded "RU Marazion" turned up in Newcastle Central in about 1963. It even got a mention in Railway Observer.

 

P

Pardon the question, but does that scan read 'Western' or 'Southern'? I'm sure it's Southern but friends I've showed and asked are adamant that it reads 'Western'.

 

Also, in Eric Gents' book, about how many are listed? And what were some of the brandings that stood out?

 

Thanks, Ron

[SRman]

It definitely says 'SOUTHERN', grainy and distorted as it is. For one thing, it has too many letters to say 'Western'.

Edited July 21, 2016 by SRman

[Porcy Mane]

Pardon the question, but does that scan read 'Western' or 'Southern'? I'm sure it's Southern but friends I've showed and asked are adamant that it reads 'Western'.

It's "Southern". I think a photograph of a similar branded van appears in Geoff Kents last wagon book. Without checking my notes the photograph that I have was taken at Faversham, 1957.

 

 

Also, in Eric Gents' book, about how many are listed? And what were some of the brandings that stood out?

 There are over four A4 pages of quite small print listing different brandings, covering different areas during different periods. What might stand out for me may not be significant for your requirements. It also does't claim to be definitive.

 

Mr Gents book is still available from the HMRS, Ebay etc. details are: 

 "BRITISH RAILWAYS BRAKE VANS AND BALLAST PLOUGHS"  HMRS 9-780902-835160

 

A quick google turned up this.

http://biblio.co.uk/book/british-railways-brakevans-ballast-ploughs-gent/d/895596344?aid=frg&utm_source=google&utm_medium=product&utm_campaign=feed-details&gclid=Cj0KEQjwwry8BRDjsbjMpPSDvagBEiQA5oW0nH3hxwrdGuRXdXSYzVNMUcUTi0EJTofw4lFTcNmuynIaAuNJ8P8HAQ

 

A bargain at any price for all the information it contains.

 

HTH

P

Edited July 21, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Evertrainz]

It's "Southern". I think a photograph of a similar branded van appears in Geoff Kents last wagon book. Without checking my notes the photograph that I have was taken at Faversham, 1957.

 

 

There are over four A4 pages of quite small print listing different brandings, covering different areas during different periods. What might stand out for me may not be significant for your requirements. It also does't claim to be definitive.

 

Mr Gents book is still available from the HMRS, Ebay etc. details are:

"BRITISH RAILWAYS BRAKE VANS AND BALLAST PLOUGHS" HMRS 9-780902-835160

 

A quick google turned up this.

http://biblio.co.uk/book/british-railways-brakevans-ballast-ploughs-gent/d/895596344?aid=frg&utm_source=google&utm_medium=product&utm_campaign=feed-details&gclid=Cj0KEQjwwry8BRDjsbjMpPSDvagBEiQA5oW0nH3hxwrdGuRXdXSYzVNMUcUTi0EJTofw4lFTcNmuynIaAuNJ8P8HAQ

 

A bargain at any price for all the information it contains.

 

HTH

P

I'll be sure to check it out, but does it go over detail such as the body variations (rain strips, chimney shape, handrails, etc.)? Also, does it cover the differences between batches in the 3 diagrams?

 

Thanks, Ron

[Porcy Mane]

I'll be sure to check it out, but does it go over detail such as the body variations (rain strips, chimney shape, handrails, etc.)? Also, does it cover the differences between batches in the 3 diagrams?

The Gent book is the best you'll get but like every work of reference it doesn't cover every single variation during the lifespan of these vans. Obviously things were changed during the lifetime of a van. Axleboxes, buffers, couplings, roof coverings, planking arrangements etc., etc., etc could all change at some point during their life. I assume you want this info. for your software designs so will you still be limited to what is available in the software libraries? 

 

If you want accuracy for a given period, buy the book then start studying photographs, then study more photographs. Paul Bartletts website is a good start. Goeff Kents third volume of "The 4mm Wagon" is another good source of info. There has been plenty of articles published in the model railway press on Std BR Brakes down the years. Sourcing some of these could be useful and finally, study even more photographs.

 

That seems to be the only way you will attain the accuracy you seem to want to achieve.

 

P

[RfDforever]

Regarding the regional branding mentioned previously; in the 'British Railways' section of the R.O., December 1949 there was the following statement, presumably from an official document, "......and B-prefix for ex M.O.T. and new wagons. In this last case, goods brake vans, loco. coal wagons, service wagons and certain special types are to have the name of the allocated Region painted in full. This also includes new standard containers, which are to have B suffixed, and the usual type-letters pre-fixed, "British Railways" and the name of the Region.

Not saying anyone took any notice, though.....,