Schools Class Loco's c1935

[Shanghai Diver]

Hello,

 

slightly odd question - and perhaps a slightly odd approach here.  

 

I have acquired a Schools Class (Charterhouse) in olive green.  My aim is to focus on the mid 1930's period on a small (6x4) layout which would be a bit 'generic'. Aim is to rebuild the old layout I had as a teenager, but done, well, with a little more eye for detail.  And rather than do as I did did then and just put random stuff onto it (no aversion to putting a mid 90's 125 carriage behind a random BR steam loco.  Or Western diesel anyone?) I would like to get the rolling stock 'right' (as much as I can).

 

I have been through 2 Many Spams excellent guide and done some searching but I am a bit lost with regard to what goes behind the loco.  From current Hornby offers I assume these are the most appropriate: they are the only ones that I have found that are olive green and I am working pre Bullied or on the cusp.  But then I found these which Hornby have named as Maunsell but are malachite - but I assume would have been repainted and are later and Bullied period.

 

The few books I have that might help are in the UK (I am not) and anything I buy I have to ship half way across the world and not all suppliers like to get involved in that So, any guidance would be much appreciated.  I grew up in Winchester so, from my rather large amount of research online when I should have been working, indicates Schools Class may have turned up here periodically, but probably not regularly but I have got no closer to understanding what should have been behind the loco.

 

Many thanks for any help...

 

Ben

 

[phil-b259]

Hello,

 

slightly odd question - and perhaps a slightly odd approach here.  

 

I have acquired a Schools Class (Charterhouse) in olive green.  My aim is to focus on the mid 1930's period on a small (6x4) layout which would be a bit 'generic'. Aim is to rebuild the old layout I had as a teenager, but done, well, with a little more eye for detail.  And rather than do as I did did then and just put random stuff onto it (no aversion to putting a mid 90's 125 carriage behind a random BR steam loco.  Or Western diesel anyone?) I would like to get the rolling stock 'right' (as much as I can).

 

I have been through 2 Many Spams excellent guide and done some searching but I am a bit lost with regard to what goes behind the loco.  From current Hornby offers I assume these are the most appropriate: they are the only ones that I have found that are olive green and I am working pre Bullied or on the cusp.  But then I found these which Hornby have named as Maunsell but are malachite - but I assume would have been repainted and are later and Bullied period.

 

The few books I have that might help are in the UK (I am not) and anything I buy I have to ship half way across the world and not all suppliers like to get involved in that So, any guidance would be much appreciated.  I grew up in Winchester so, from my rather large amount of research online when I should have been working, indicates Schools Class may have turned up here periodically, but probably not regularly but I have got no closer to understanding what should have been behind the loco.

 

Many thanks for any help...

 

Ben

Hornby haven't released any of their Maunsell carriages for a while now - Go back 5 or so years when they were newly introduced there were several Olive variants available.

 

If you want some matching stock for your schools class (which was issued without smoke deflectors thus restricting it to a very narrow time frame - the deflectors were were applied well before the Malachite* livery was created) then it's going to be a case of search e-bay, etc.

 

* Malachite green was introduced in late 1938 and not much stock got it before WW2 interrupted the repainting. The Malachite green Maunsell stock Hornby have in their current catalogue / production schedule are there to go with the forthcoming Merchant Navy class locomotives.

[Oldddudders]

The new Hornby Maunsells depict rebuilds of older coaches, and were used on secondary and branch services - no corridor indicates that. In the '30s the Schools Class was new and used on more prestigious workings most of the time. They famously took over the Hastings services via Tunbridge Wells, for example. In your time frame Maunsell was building new corridor main line coaches, which as Phil says, were indeed olive green, and these would look perfect with the V Class. Hornby's models are excellent renderings - but you need to scour ebay and the secondhand market to find many these days. 

[Shanghai Diver]

Many thanks both of you for the replies. Really helps as have spent a couple of weeks going in circles! I'll go and have a hunt around eBay and also try and track down some copies of books and get them sent out.

 

Have been genuinely surprised of how little imagery online there is of "complete" trains...knowing a bit more on the routes helps. Indo appreciate it is an incredibly narrow time period...and won't be so very fixated. One loco does not make a hobby!

[Forester]

Urban myth has it the Schools were built for the Hastings line.

 

In fact they were a most successful attempt to produce a more powerful 4-4-0 with a wide route availability including the Hastings line. The concession for use on the Hastings line was the round-topped firebox which allowed a rounded cab roof to fit the Hastings loading gauge.

 

The first Schools went initially to any shed but St Leonards. First Dover/Ramsgate, then Eastbourne, then St Leonards, then Fratton.

 

30926 went to Bournemouth from new, but not for very long. The first large transfer of Schools to Bournemouth came in 1937, at which time they would have become regular visitors to Winchester in some numbers.

 

Assuming it is the Winchester area you want to model, 1937 is the year/era to go for - olive green, of course - and that will help determine the coach stock in service on that line at the time.

[phil-b259]

Urban myth has it the Schools were built for the Hastings line.

 

In fact they were a most successful attempt to produce a more powerful 4-4-0 with a wide route availability including the Hastings line. The concession for use on the Hastings line was the round-topped firebox which allowed a rounded cab roof to fit the Hastings loading gauge.

 

The first Schools went initially to any shed but St Leonards. First Dover/Ramsgate, then Eastbourne, then St Leonards, then Fratton.

 

30926 went to Bournemouth from new, but not for very long. The first large transfer of Schools to Bournemouth came in 1937, at which time they would have become regular visitors to Winchester in some numbers.

 

Assuming it is the Winchester area you want to model, 1937 is the year/era to go for - olive green, of course - and that will help determine the coach stock in service on that line at the time.

 

I believe it wasn't so much a concession to the Hastings line that governed the boiler choice - rather a shortened Lord Nelson boiler (as originally proposed - it being a pure Maunsell design after all) couldn't be made to 'work' satisfactory during the design process, so instead Maunsell took inspiration from the King Arthurs - whose ex LSWR round top boiler was proving to be a sucessfull design.

 

As you say the Hastings line wasn't the prime mover for the creation of the class - if anything that honer goes to the Portsmouth direct line via Haslemere where the ex LSWR motive power was struggling with ever heavier trains.

 

After electrification of the Portsmouth line, the Fratton schools started to be reallocated to places like Bournemouth - where they continued to give an excellent account of themselves.

[The Lurker]

I believe it wasn't so much a concession to the Hastings line that governed the boiler choice - rather a shortened Lord Nelson boiler (as originally proposed - it being a pure Maunsell design after all) couldn't be made to 'work' satisfactory during the design process, so instead Maunsell took inspiration from the King Arthurs - whose ex LSWR round top boiler was proving to be a sucessfull design.

 

 .

SEMG concurs - the Lord Nelson Belpaire firebox would have given too restricted a view from the cab when considered in conjunction with the restricted loading gauge requirements .

 

There's shed allocation detail available too on the data page for the Schools Class

[Dorsetmike]

[tongue in cheek]  You could always go over to  N gauge, Dapol have recently released the Schools and also have Maunsell coaches in olive green. There is also an N class mogul from Farish, M7s from Dapol, and T9, 700 and 0395 from Union  Mills, a Terrier from Dapol may not be acceptable for a Winchester based layout.  Plus with N gauge you'd get to run longer trains on 6'x4' [/tongue in cheek mode off].

 

As Forester mentioned above there was a transfer of Schools class (924-933 IIRC) from Fratton shed to Bournemouth in 1937 due to the electrification of the Portsmouth line. I suppose it could be that there were some Schools diverted through Winchester via Eastleigh to Portsmouth due to engineering works especially those during the electrification of the Portsmouth line.

[Shanghai Diver]

I noticed, having seen the entire Dapol rage coming up on ebay!  With the space I have, N gauge would have got me much 'further'.

 

I got a bit lucky - a couple, a couple of coaches off eBay and then it turned out Alton Model Centre had some 'new' stock.  Anyway, I have something that resembles a Waterloo - South West England set up (created with a bit of work from 2 Spams guide and also the Excel sheet on the SEM pages).  I would need to renumber to be truly authentic, but for the future.  On the basis it goes around in a loop in my living room out here I think I can get away with it.

 

I am intrigued as to what was actually running through Winchester around this time.  If not Schools Class I am assuming with King Arthurs amongst others?

 

Now taking some pleasure in creating the furniture to go with it...and discovering how the internet has changed things since I last built anything and driven me to eat copious amounts of breakfast cereal!  It'll keep me going for a few years

[phil-b259]

I noticed, having seen the entire Dapol rage coming up on ebay!  With the space I have, N gauge would have got me much 'further'.

 

I got a bit lucky - a couple, a couple of coaches off eBay and then it turned out Alton Model Centre had some 'new' stock.  Anyway, I have something that resembles a Waterloo - South West England set up (created with a bit of work from 2 Spams guide and also the Excel sheet on the SEM pages).  I would need to renumber to be truly authentic, but for the future.  On the basis it goes around in a loop in my living room out here I think I can get away with it.

 

I am intrigued as to what was actually running through Winchester around this time.  If not Schools Class I am assuming with King Arthurs amongst others?

 

Now taking some pleasure in creating the furniture to go with it...and discovering how the internet has changed things since I last built anything and driven me to eat copious amounts of breakfast cereal!  It'll keep me going for a few years

 

In RTR terms (and sticking with 00) then to complement your schools, Hornby do the T9, M7, N15 (Arthurs) and 700s. The only snag is that Hornby have only issued one N15 with the 'E' prefix numbering style (and that was in a train pack) with all the rest in the post 1936 numbering system plus they all feature smoke deflectors.  Only one M7 has been issued with a E prefix (the other olive ones have been post 1936 variant) although the 700s have been released in the pre 36 livery (including green lining) and post 36 (no lining and no E prefix). Bachmann have done their N class (which may well have been seen at Winchester) in Olive, but again they are all in the post 36 numbering style and the finish is different from Hornby*

 

 

* I feel Hornby have got the Green right but the lettering is to pale. Bachmann have the yellowness of the lettering right but the green is a bit too bluish.

[Dorsetmike]

The removal of the E, A & B prefixes began from about 1928, most had gone by 1931.  You might also find a Bachman Nelson  on the second hand market.

[phil-b259]

The removal of the E, A & B prefixes began from about 1928, most had gone by 1931.  You might also find a Bachman Nelson  on the second hand market.

 

If the prefixes started going as early as 1928 why did the Southern turn out the first 10 of the schools class in March 1930 with the E prefix?

 

The second batch of the class emerged in 1932 without the prefix and also with smoke deflectors - which the 1930 batch originally lacked placing the numbering change as during 1931. Given the Southern's reputation for being careful about not wasting money, its quite probable that A, B & E prefixes could still be seen on some locos as late as 1936

[bbishop]

The removal of the E, A & B prefixes began from about 1928, most had gone by 1931.  You might also find a Bachman Nelson  on the second hand market.

Mike,

You need to put a couple of years on that, the E prefix was left off from about 1931.

 

Bill

[bbishop]

Watch out for the earlier "Southern" coaches with five compartment Brake 3rds.  Totally wrong.  Actually a Swindon project.  The Hornby operative who issued them in Southern livery should be shot.

 

Bill