Midland 3F locos built by Neilson & co information please

[Londontram]

I'm wondering if anyone can help me, working with the scant information I can find on the web it looks that between 1892 and 1902 A batch of Midland 3F tender locos were built by various private builder including amongst them Neilson & co in Glasgow. It appears they built 85 out of the total of 345 built by these out side contractors. Has any body got a list or idea of the Midland loco numbers that were allocated to the 3F locos built by Neilsons. Thanks Steve

 

Edit add - Any numbers of the 20 Dubs & co built locos as well would be helpful too thanks

[Blandford1969]

I have not got any of my books here, but think at least one may have been on the S&D. Is there no information in the Wild Swan book that covers the class?

[DaveF]

The only Neilson built midland Railway 0-6-0 locos were the Johnson single frame design, usually known as 2F.  Many were later rebuilt as 3F with different boilers.

 

Neilson built 100 locos , original numbers 1873 to 1972 (1907 numbers 3200 to 3299) in 1890/1.

 

They also built some of the M class 0-6-0s.

 

2284 - 2358 (later 3470 to 3544) in 1896/7

 

2461 to 2490 (later 3600 to 3629) in 1899/1900

 

2681 to 2735 (3710 to 3764) in 1901/2.

 

Rebuilding with Class 3 H" boilers strated in 1904.

Many received belpaire boilers later on, either G6 or G7 boilers.from 1916 onwards

 

Dubs locos:

J and J2 class of 2Fs 

2063 to 2092 (3340 to 3369) built 1891

 

2133 to 2152 (3410 to 3429 built 1892

 

2153 to 2172 (3430 to 3449) built 1893

 

2173 to 2182 (3450 - 3459 built 1894

 

M Class 2F

2551 to 2570 (3630 to 3649) built 1900

 

 

As far as I know all the locos originally built as 3Fs with the round topped Class "H" boiler were built Derby between 1903 and 1908.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Information from Midland Locomotives Vol 4 Essery and Jenkinson  pub. Wild Swan.

 

David Baxter's British Locomotive Catalogue 1825 to 1923 Vol 3A Midland Railway and its constituents also gives building details and numbers, together with rebuilding dates for the various boilers used, ie the conversion from 2F to 3F.

I am not sure if all the data is completely accurate as I don't know the sources used.

 

David

[Londontram]

Dave your a gent, you've given me all the information I need thanks from this and what I have my end I can work out a complete picture. Thanks again Steve

[Poor Old Bruce]

Another source would be Stephen Summerson's 'Midland Railway Locomotives' published by Irwell Press. Volume Four covers the Johnson Goods Engines. Chapter and verse on building and rebuilding, as Dave F says, many were given H boilers before being given G7s (that is the plural of G7, not to be confused with G7S as fitted to 4Fs).

[Compound2632]

If you're looking at the Bachmann 3F as a starting point for a loco in Midland Railway condition, beware that the rebuilding with Belpaire G7 boiler didn't start until 1916 and the majority were rebuilt after grouping. Also, beware that the rebuilt engines preserved some detail variations characteristic of the particular class of Johnson 0-6-0 they started life as - notably the cab steps. The 100 "Neilson Goods" engines of 1890 are a case in point, with the lower step narrower than the upper. The Bachmann model represents a 3F rebuilt from one of the very last batches of Johnson engines, Class M (as DaveF lists, some also built by Neilson along with Dubs and some English builders) - these have a more elegant sweeping curve at the front of the cab steps, so the lower step is longer. (Ref. Essery & Jenkinson, An Illustrated Review of Midland Locomotives, Vol. 4, WSP 1989. As Poor Old Bruce says, Summerson is authoritative for detail and dates but much denser reading and fewer pretty pictures of engines in Johnson condition!)

[Poor Old Bruce]

Another prominent fitting which was in use well into the 1920s were Ramsbottom safety valves, also fitted to the fist batch of LMS 3F 0-6-0Ts (commonly known as Jinties) and to 4Fs and probably others. If you can find someone who makes Ramsbottoms on a round base to fit onto a Belpaire firebox, please let me know 'cos I havn't found any yet. Those made by Alan Gibson Workshop as MR fittings are for round-top fireboxes. I have a thought that someone suggested the safety valves listed by AGW for a GCR 'Pom-Pom' are suitable but I do not have any to hand at the mo' to say yay or nay (a couple of years ago they were listed as Salter valves, it may have been corrrected by now).