Shunting Puzzle

[DCB]

There seem to be an awful lot of shunting puzzle micro layouts on this forum  which bear very little resemblance to prototype track layouts.

 

I drew this plan, based on "4 point" termini as found from Somerset to Scotland as a shunting puzzle. The shunting neck is over 20 feet long and the only limit on train length is the loco TE. 15 full wagons to a 14XX or something equally feeble (0P) or 30 to a 57XX (4F).

 

Some of the wagons are empty and ready to be removed (Green)

Some are full or not completely empty and are to be left (Red)

The Brakevan is clear.

 

How many shunts to get the reds placed in the goods yard, greens assembled into a train ready to depart and the brake on the right end?

 

The incoming train in the platform has 13 reds and 3 greens 

 

If you want to complicate matters Some of the greens are full for intermediate stations on the way back to the junction and some of the reds empties arriving for specific loads.

Edited September 14, 2016 by DavidCBroad

[Nearholmer]

Personally, I like this a lot more than the many ideas, because it is pretty close to the sort of real-world puzzles that shunters must have had to solve on a daily basis .......... The motivation for achieving things in the fewest possible moves was different, more time for chatting, drinking tea etc, or getting home sooner, rather than mental satisfaction, but the outcome much the same.

 

The other "shunting puzzle" scenario that I'm surprised doesn't get used more is the local sorting yard. These were mini-marshalling-yards, often only three or four sidings and a head-shunt, which would typically receive and despatch one or two large cuts of vehicles each day, by way of 'through goods' services from/to a large marshalling yard, and from which 'spokes', in the form of local goods trains, radiated, maybe three or four "spokes" running each day.

 

One I know of was at Polegate, on the outskirts of Eastbourne, which was linked by through goods services to Norwood Yard, and which sent local goods trains in four, possibly five, directions.

 

They make great inspirations for simple, compact, models, with a lot of realistic shunting puzzles, and I notice that Rev Denny included one on his Buckingham complex, at Granborough Junction IIRC.

 

More power to your shunting stick!

 

Kevin

[HillsideDepot]

The other "shunting puzzle" scenario that I'm surprised doesn't get used more is the local sorting yard. These were mini-marshalling-yards, often only three or four sidings and a head-shunt, which would typically receive and despatch one or two large cuts of vehicles each day, by way of 'through goods' services from/to a large marshalling yard, and from which 'spokes', in the form of local goods trains, radiated, maybe three or four "spokes" running each day.

 

One I know of was at Polegate, on the outskirts of Eastbourne, which was linked by through goods services to Norwood Yard, and which sent local goods trains in four, possibly five, directions.

 

They make great inspirations for simple, compact, models, with a lot of realistic shunting puzzles, and I notice that Rev Denny included one on his Buckingham complex, at Granborough Junction IIRC.

 

More power to your shunting stick!

 

Kevin

 

Agreed, Kevin. It's this idea which I have used for my layout Mortimore's Yard . I'm still working on the timetable side of things, but the layout has been to a number of shows where cuts of wagons have been shunted around on the basis of what could happen, although I now want to progress to something more realistic where consignments drive the process. I have a range of industries receiving and despatching goods, from a selection of depots and private sidings around the area arranged along a series of freight only branches. The various freight only lines are served by Trip workings which run at certain times and traffic has to deposited at/collected from at the main yard to connect with long distance freights, so there is an element of sorting in both directions.

Add the need for some block trains (fuel oil, wood pulp) to run round en-route to their destinations (a wash out on the direct route meaning trains now have to undertake this time consuming diversion) and I have a wide range of traffics in a relatively small space.

For another real life example, albeit with each commodity being closer to train loads than wagon loads (but the principle applies) would be Lawrence Hill in Bristol. In the 1970s cement and house bricks were unloaded in the former goods yard (as well as a limited tonnage of more general goods), but there were trips along the Avon Street branch for another cement manufacturer, United Molasses, and a scrap merchant. Another scrap merchant at Stapleton Road was served by the Yard Pilot tripping along the mainline. 

 

All great fun and, dare I say it, more fun than posh passenger coaches flashing past behind a big engine!

 

[Rivercider]

At a quick guess the loco making the shunts would have to draw up the main line at least  a dozen times.

 

I would put the brake van on the loop towards the blocks, then shunt no.1 siding getting the two greens out into the brake van.

Then four moves to get the greens out of no.2 siding out into the loop while returning the reds to no.2.

Then moving the greens from the incoming train on top of the other greens in the loop, the brake van can be pushed right to the blocks if needed.

Then back out to berth the incoming reds in the yard, probably a mininum of two more shunts.

 

As you suggest it can be made much more complicated than that.

If one siding has a goods shed then the vans can go there, the other siding could be for coal traffic.

Then again the stationmaster(?) may require some of the reds that are to remain to be placed in a different siding.

Some additional marsalling of the outgoing train may also be required, the possibilities are limitless.

 

I also like Kevins idea, which is not often seen modelled.

Shunting a small sorting yard need not be too complicated if incoming traffic is already in blocks.

The yard pilot then puts together blocks of similar wagons which each then get tripped off scene to the local coal yard/full loads/private sidings.

Returning trips then get re-assembled into a couple of outgoing departures.

 

Ashton Meadows sidings in Bristol is a good GW example of a compact yard, while Yeoford springs to mind as another smaller SR example,

 

cheers 

[inglenookfan]

I would say there are very few prototypical sidings that can be squeezed into the micro format. If everyone had space in thier lives for 20' headshunts there would be more prototypical shunting puzzles. Sadly; there would then be no micro layouts of which half the challenge is making it look believable and maybe bigger than it is.

 

Inglenookfan

[BG John]

I've finally got my 3-2-2 inglenook usable, now I have the required five wagons, and it's quite entertaining deciding where wagons should go by dealing a pack of cards, but not at all prototypical I'm sure. In the past I've just shunted wagons randomly on bigger layouts, so at least there is some order to the conventional shunting puzzle. Hopefully I'll have a timesaver working in the not too distant future, and I'll probably use cards for that too.

 

I'm also building several more conventional layouts, and it would be interesting to try to operate them more realistically, but still in an interesting way. I think a problem for a lot of layouts though is the amount of movements that may have been done by human or horse power.

[The Stationmaster]

Of course the problem with shunting on a model railway is that, with the possible exception of larger scales, you can't loose shunt.  With plenty of headroom I know exactly what some of my former Shunters would do on that example and that is cut off behind the green wagons on the arriving train - go ahead and then set back and pick up everything from both sidings and simply knock of the wagons that remain towards the appropriate yard siding and drop the outwards towards the bit left on the through line.  Once that was done they'd set back on the through line and pick up all the inwards wagons and then loose shunt them to the relevant sidings.

 

So -

1. Go ahead with greens attached

2. Set back to siding 1

3. Pick up and then  Go ahead from siding 1 and,

4. Set back to siding 2

5. Go ahead from siding 2 clear of the points to the through line.
6. Set back knocking wagons off to the appropriate line as you go.

7. Go ahead if necessary (might not be)

8. Set back onto the red wagons on the through line,

9. Go ahead clear of the points,

10.  Set back knocking off wagons to the two sidings as you go,

11. Go ahead with remaining green wagons

12. Set back onto the brake van

And away.

 

And soem of my blokes were more than happey (even if I wasn't about tehir doing it) to shunt rafts of 70 wagons at a time!

[retiredoperator]

Hi David.  I do like your plan, as for your comment on “ Little resemblance to Prototype Layouts “ I haven’t got an opinion . Personally I got my ideas from YouTube being led down this road, through lack of space to set up a regular layout.  My efforts so far have been Inglenooks, but I have not managed to include a Loco  runround nor a siding for Brake Vans. As for the length of the baseboard, nine foot?  I have confined my planks/ modules to four foot, except my latest idea being a four foot fiddleyard, if I had seen this idea first I could of done something similar.   Happy modelling Kev