Costs of running/hiring a loco.

[Chameleon]

I'm curious, how much does it cost to hire a loco for a mainline tour? If you take into account, fuel, crewing, network rail charges for loco moves etc, what is left to cover inspection, wear and tear and general maintainance?

[Hilux5972]

Each owner would charge their own fees im guessing. A tank loco would invariably cost less than a tender loco.

[28XX]

Also of interest is the cost of shuffling the pack of Britain's stock of preserved engines for the gala season. I have been assured by the official SVR FaceBook page that this process is cost effective, but no numbers.

[Dunsignalling]

I don't know the actual numbers but I was told a few years ago that a good rule of thumb was that the basic daily cost of hiring/running a large passenger loco on a heritage line was roughly equal to the hourly figure for the same loco on main line duty. That's the owner's rental, most of which goes towards the next overhaul, plus fuel and daily maintenance.

 

Crew costs (often volunteers in the first case) and those of positioning moves (be they by rail or road) which can vary wildly, come on top of that.

 

John  

[The Stationmaster]

I think I was one of the first people, if not the first, to go into spot hiring out mainline diesels in the early years of privatisation although of course BR had hired out shunting locos for many years and oddly i had also been involved in some of the earliest hiring out of locos in the preservation world.

 

As far as mainline diesels were concerned (my offer in the emergent marketplace was Class 37s) I based my rates on what the locos cost us to have on the fleet plus what the estimated engineering cost of accruing mileage was with fuel and consumables (basically brake blocks) charged as extras unless the hirer specifically wanted an 'all in' rate (which most of my costumers did for a single shift or one day hire). I also hired out traincrew and offered a combined loco and driver rate which was something of a bargain for the hirer but very profitable for us.

 

Although nobody else was involved in spot hire at that time a number of companies were prepared to quote for long term contracts so as I was a purchaser in that area I knew what they market rates happened to be as well so could set my prices accordingly provided they covered costs.

[Ed-farms]

The only cost I know is Network Rail charge £1000 each time a loco is coupled or uncoupled. Probably explains why so many tours have a diesel on the back to aid turning the set around and towing to/from the depot

[Classsix T]

A former Riviera Trains employee of my acquaintance told me a Cl.56 cost them £3000 for a railtour, some time ago now mind.

 

C6T.

[Squirrel]

Figures I've heard are £30k for a 4-6-2, but I have heard £2k/day for the same loco, and £7k track access for mainline transport. How much fact supports these figures I don't know. There are also huge penalty charges for breakdowns which may explain the diesel on the rear end.

[jjb1970]

Rather than penalty charges I'm assuming that the liquidated damage liabilities for a failure are rather high. Although often used interchangeably, there is a difference between penalty charges and liquidated damages (especially in English law), liquidated damages can be levied based on a pre-estimate of loss and are not simply a punitive charge.

[The Stationmaster]

Rather than penalty charges I'm assuming that the liquidated damage liabilities for a failure are rather high. Although often used interchangeably, there is a difference between penalty charges and liquidated damages (especially in English law), liquidated damages can be levied based on a pre-estimate of loss and are not simply a punitive charge.

 

Unless things have changed a lot there are no 'penalty charges' as such.  There is a 'clear the line' charge which originally had a flat rate of £1,000 to move the failed/disabled train from its place of failure on the running line to the first suitable location where it could be put to one side - I know that charge had subsequently increased to £2,000 but that was some years ago.  the original arrangement was that the whole sum was paid on to whoever supplied the motive power to carry out the 'removal'.

 

Beyond that the standard delay charges of £X per minute apply and are raised in respect of all minutes lost attributed to the incident (and are repaid to any other affected operators by NR).  The value of X presumably still varies among operators - for example going back to the end of the 20th century the concern I worked for had an agreed figure of £1 per minute either way, i.e we paid £1 per minute for delays attributed to us or we were paid £1 per minute for delays attributed to Railtrack (as they then were).  The total amount payable per incident might be limited by contractual terms however the only instances whereIi definitely know that to be the case is in respect of concerns operating steam hauled trains where there is a limit on the total sum payable by them on attributed delays - they are still liable for the 'clear the line' payment however.

 

In all cases the actual rates applied for attributable delays are part of an operator's access agreement and are not necessarily in the public domain.

 

However all of this is well beyond the original question regarding hire rates.  I have now dug out what I was charging back in 1997 for spot hires -

 

Driver for a turn not exceeding 9 hours  £205

Driver for a turn 9hrs 1 minute - 11 hours  £240

Exceptionally a minimum charge £160 for part of a turn of duty not exceeding 6 hours if the driver concerned is already on duty at the time of being hired out.

All incidentals (lodging,meals etc) charged at cost plus 10% or 15% depending on what it is.

 

Class 37 diesel £600 per 24 hr day or any part thereof on a spot hire basis (but £2,000 per occasion if a loco is hired by Railtrack 'to clear the line' (of a failed etc train) 

 

In all cases the above were subject to VAT at the standard rate (and in all cases the above rates were, of course, profitable).

[roythebus]

£600 a day doesn't sound too bad. In the vintage bus world it costs around that to hire a Routemaster bus for a wedding or enthusiasts tour. Like the steam locos, these have to cover their standing costs every time they go out, that is for the uninitiated what it costs to have the vehicle sitting there i.e rent, insurance, depreciation, overheads. the more days you can use the vehicle, the less the daily overheads. So if it costs £10k a year overheads and goes out once, then those overheads of £10k have to be earned on that one trip. If it goes out 10 times a year the overheads can be recovered over 10 trips, so the daily overhead is down to £1k a trip. The variable costs are train crew, fuel, wear-and-tear, track access charges, operating profit etc. and hire of the rolling stock.